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User Info: Disengaged

Disengaged
4 weeks ago#21
Charged arrow head shots can stop a surprising amount of moves in their tracks.

It can also stop bosses and large enemies from pulling off a LOT of moves if you hit them in the wind up (or for quite a few even after the start). It can even force homunculi to drop Semi trucks, and abort breath beam shots.

It doesnt necessarily stop EVERY Move, but as far as I'm aware, any move that takes an enemy a while to charge up, ir has a big tell, and then results in a large hard to avoid (or impossible to avoid stage destroying) attacks, a charged bow shot or two to the face will stop it in its tracks.
This is my signature. You read my signature. It sucked.

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
4 weeks ago#22
Yeah I'm very happy to see items get some great value out of items here, also in how well they work regarding challenge runs. Grenades are absolutely fantastic with their knockback and wall-collisions. Haven't really dived into my NUR yet, still doing some labwork and making notes.

I think it is really smart that the File12 content has pre-determined item layouts. A good way to balance it out.

I wouldn't really call it an RPG yet though. It is just a good action game with a few ability-modifiers lying about. The game really loves to give efficient players something to toy with, which is great. Think this game will be a joy to see speedrun at PT Ultimate if that ever happens.

> Arrow shot
I'm a tad confused on how Criticals work in this game. I have +200% Critical Hit Damage on my Arrow legion, but headshots go from 157 to 257 with those upgrades. It should be much higher. Is there a drop off or maximum?
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: Orinne

Orinne
4 weeks ago#23
Raeng posted...

> Arrow shot
I'm a tad confused on how Criticals work in this game. I have +200% Critical Hit Damage on my Arrow legion, but headshots go from 157 to 257 with those upgrades. It should be much higher. Is there a drop off or maximum?

Most likely, the +200% just means it modifies a base critical damage multiplier for headshots. Not sure on the specifics but it seems like certain types of crits have smaller multipliers (eg. backstabs aren't 100% extra damage) and the crit damage multiplier would increase that. So if a headshot normally deals 20% extra damage, then a crit damage multiplier of +200% would raise it to 60%.

User Info: ReddShope

ReddShope
4 weeks ago#24
I've been looking for a topic like this, thank you. Also wanted to share some things that I've found for speed running that you probably know but can help.

Using the dash attack will get you under low obstacles quickly.

Dash Attack appears to be faster than sprinting, but I cannot figure out if the delay at the end makes up for it yet.

Arrow legion, as the fastest legion, might be useful early on for chain jumping, as it seems faster than sprinting.

I know you've discussed the sword legion blade ability to get across the map, but in a real world timer speed run, I'm not sure that this is the best option, still, it's very useful.

It seems like you can still chain jump in free fall if you haven't chain jumped yet, I've yet to test with diving off the side while using a legion to cross gaps we normally couldn't, but it seems like it might work.

These are just a few concepts I've been toying with, will work on them later.
Single-handedly destroyed BC.
Procrastinating since '93

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
4 weeks ago#25
You can also really easily go out-of-bounds in this game. Just stand near an edge with your legion behind you, walk to the edge, stop, open the menu and let the legion 'push' you off. You are immortal during the menu, so when you exit the menu you're out of bounds. Haven't found a good use for it yet.

Orinne posted...
Most likely, the +200% just means it modifies a base critical damage multiplier for headshots. Not sure on the specifics but it seems like certain types of crits have smaller multipliers (eg. backstabs aren't 100% extra damage) and the crit damage multiplier would increase that. So if a headshot normally deals 20% extra damage, then a crit damage multiplier of +200% would raise it to 60%.

Cheers, that makes a lot of sense. Instead of multiplying the total damage, it just increases the increased damage %. That makes sense.
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: Tipsentech

Tipsentech
4 weeks ago#26
I'm not much of a speed runner unfortunately so I don't have that style in mind but I do like hearing about it. This'll prob be a superior speedrun game compared to your average stylish action game, at least to watch, since it is more generally geared toward efficiency.

Most of the stuff I was messing with was pretty fruitless. Fooling around with Chain Wrap on enemies that had been over wrapped to the point it no longer works. You can still get the sync for Axe and Bow which are decent attacks, Dog works but is bad. Dog can still perfect dodge when ridden and it get's it's own sync that's bad. Nothing especially useful but Sword 360 hold ZL is a solid way to apply slow and deal good damage for sword. All that and fooling about with 360 zl Arm back attacks combined with hit rush spam from other Legions which seemed to keep things in perma stun. So not much on my end which made other people's posts nice to see.

User Info: ReddShope

ReddShope
4 weeks ago#27
Yeah, not much of a speed runner myself but I think I would enjoy at least segmented runs particularly at like an AGDQ. Honestly, I think this entire game could be done in 2 hours if the dialogue was more skippable, there are sections that aren't at all.

Do you know if there's a limit to how many enemies can be chain bound at once?
Single-handedly destroyed BC.
Procrastinating since '93

User Info: Da_doppen

Da_doppen
4 weeks ago#28
ReddShope posted...
I've been looking for a topic like this, thank you. Also wanted to share some things that I've found for speed running that you probably know but can help.

Using the dash attack will get you under low obstacles quickly.

Dash Attack appears to be faster than sprinting, but I cannot figure out if the delay at the end makes up for it yet.

Arrow legion, as the fastest legion, might be useful early on for chain jumping, as it seems faster than sprinting.

I know you've discussed the sword legion blade ability to get across the map, but in a real world timer speed run, I'm not sure that this is the best option, still, it's very useful.

It seems like you can still chain jump in free fall if you haven't chain jumped yet, I've yet to test with diving off the side while using a legion to cross gaps we normally couldn't, but it seems like it might work.

These are just a few concepts I've been toying with, will work on them later.

Some other movement tech:
Two ways of doing a small jump to get up on obstacles I've noticed are:
1: down, up+ZL with Gladius to Blade sync attack, forward dodge (for obstacles in front)
2: Full gun ZL combo into Dog sync attack (for obstacles behind)

If you send a Legion forward with ZR or the "flick the right stick" ability code you can vertically dislocate them from what you're standing on, allowing you to send it straight forward while facing downward slopes like stairs. Haven't been looking for sequence breaks, but I've managed to get some collectibles with this that should've been out of my reach (Like the one in the dumpster in File 3 that should be inaccessible during your second visit to the area, where the intended route is blocked off).

If you have the "call burst" ability code and call your legion next to an exploding throwable item like a battery or glowing stone it'll automatically activate perfect call.

If you find a digging spot with Dog, you can switch legions as soon as it starts digging and the spot will still magically excavate itself for you.
Maybe Doopliss isn't kicking ass, but he's taking names!
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
4 weeks ago#29
Da_doppen posted...
If you have the "call burst" ability code and call your legion next to an exploding throwable item like a battery or glowing stone it'll automatically activate perfect call.

That's honestly really good.

Another setup I like now is Slow Shot, and then manually put the Arm legion behind the foe and do 360ZL with maximum Critical damage +300% with ++Slow in it (got lucky with the drop). Melts.
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: Tipsentech

Tipsentech
4 weeks ago#30
Max enemies that can be bound at once is only 3 I think. Max bind times is 2 for most but unlimited for those large bosses whose legs need bound.

So call burst on Arrow would be a good idea, great find! I'll keep an eye out for it as a sub ability. Jealous of crit damage 300% + slow, I think that's top tier stuff since I can see back attacks dominating long term.
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