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  3. Kabal has low, air and straight projectiles.

User Info: BBoy2020

BBoy2020
1 week ago#31
DeusMortem posted...
Well done pretending he gets all of those things at once.


Variation 1 has all those. Standing blades, ground blades and straight air blades.

User Info: DeusMortem

DeusMortem
6 days ago#32
BBoy2020 posted...
DeusMortem posted...
Well done pretending he gets all of those things at once.


Variation 1 has all those. Standing blades, ground blades and straight air blades.


Sure, but that’s not even a particularly good combination. Lows are slow and straight airborne are worse than his diagonal one except for certain matchups.

Choosing those also means losing his mixups and cancel. TC made it sound as if you’re getting all of this at the same time which is very far from true. Kabal is a fair high-tier character so complaining about him is absurd.
I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
(edited 6 days ago)

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
4 days ago#33
Kabal has a lot of stuff even just in one variation.
https://i.imgtc.ws/nDVyBfn.gif

User Info: DeusMortem

DeusMortem
4 days ago#34
LightningAce11 posted...
Kabal has a lot of stuff even just in one variation.


His new variation isn't good though, yet you're suggesting it's broken in this topic.

His low projectile is too slow to use in mixups and due to its long startup time also not nearly as good in projectile wars as say Liu Kang's low. The straight air buzzsaw is only better than his diagonal one in specific matchups (I could see it working against a Cetrion with Earthquake), too, so that's not even necessarily a plus. His diagonal buzzsaw helps him in the mid-range game far more than the straight one does. As a competent Kabal main I don't think this variation will see much use.
I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
4 days ago#35
I never said he was broken, just that in each variation, he has way too many tools.

His third one has a restand, or a cloud to heal him or do chip. It can extend combos for big damage. It has another low string that can launch.

And that doesn't cover his base kit. Do characters like Kotal or Johnny have as much?
https://i.imgtc.ws/nDVyBfn.gif

User Info: DeusMortem

DeusMortem
4 days ago#36
LightningAce11 posted...
I never said he was broken, just that in each variation, he has way too many tools.

His third one has a restand, or a cloud to heal him or do chip. It can extend combos for big damage. It has another low string that can launch.

And that doesn't cover his base kit. Do characters like Kotal or Johnny have as much?


I haven't played since the patch so I can't comment on that. But yes, enough characters are as strong as or stronger than he is, which is why complaining about him is unjustified. There's no "low string that can launch". I suppose you're referring to his Low Spinner special move. The low aspect of that move is literally completely irrelevant as you have a huge amount of time to react. It's not applicable as a mixup. Go into training mode and you'll see. Unless the patch has changed its properties that is; I don't recall having read that, though.
I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
4 days ago#37
Deus, please stop downplaying him. Kabal has long ranged normals, which nearly all of start with mids so he doesn't have to worry about the uppercut kb, unlike Johnny or Kotal, as most of their strings start with highs. Kabal has good pressure because of his range, and the fact that he is so safe on all his strings that he might as well be plus to some characters. Two strings cause kbs on punish, which he will almost always get because of the speed and range.

He has a full screen combo starter/extender, and he's happy to trade projectiles because his cause a knockdown, or on amplify a juggle state.

He has his air projectiles that he can just spam and shut down a large number of characters.

His hook grab is fast and causes a punish kb for massive damage. His d4, b4 and j2 have a lot of range for him to just poke out opponents.

He's good at zoning, and pressure, at mixups (seeing as each variation offers a form of it, with lows, cancels and more) doing big damage with combos, having a 9 frame mid.

Also, his fatal blow is super fast and goes full screen. It even has enough pushback that not everybody will be able to punish it in time. People complain about Jax and Erron but you can duck those. You do anything other than let go of block and you will take 30% with a press of a button.

He is top tier, because he has too many things at once. He doesn't need so much. He can have his projectiles limited to one variation, mixups to one and damage to another. But the way things are he has a little bit of everything no matter what you do.

Kabal has flown under the radar because of the constant Scorpion and Liu Kang complaints, but he about as strong as them.
https://i.imgtc.ws/nDVyBfn.gif

User Info: OnlySkin

OnlySkin
4 days ago#38
He has literally everything and his hitboxes and hurtboxes are absolutely insane. His jump kick is crazy and he is insanely hard to anti air. There isn't enough complaining about him.

User Info: DeusMortem

DeusMortem
4 days ago#39
LightningAce11 posted...
Deus, please stop downplaying him. Kabal has long ranged normals, which nearly all of start with mids so he doesn't have to worry about the uppercut kb, unlike Johnny or Kotal, as most of their strings start with highs. Kabal has good pressure because of his range, and the fact that he is so safe on all his strings that he might as well be plus to some characters. Two strings cause kbs on punish, which he will almost always get because of the speed and range.

He has a full screen combo starter/extender, and he's happy to trade projectiles because his cause a knockdown, or on amplify a juggle state.

He has his air projectiles that he can just spam and shut down a large number of characters.

His hook grab is fast and causes a punish kb for massive damage. His d4, b4 and j2 have a lot of range for him to just poke out opponents.

He's good at zoning, and pressure, at mixups (seeing as each variation offers a form of it, with lows, cancels and more) doing big damage with combos, having a 9 frame mid.

Also, his fatal blow is super fast and goes full screen. It even has enough pushback that not everybody will be able to punish it in time. People complain about Jax and Erron but you can duck those. You do anything other than let go of block and you will take 30% with a press of a button.

He is top tier, because he has too many things at once. He doesn't need so much. He can have his projectiles limited to one variation, mixups to one and damage to another. But the way things are he has a little bit of everything no matter what you do.

Kabal has flown under the radar because of the constant Scorpion and Liu Kang complaints, but he about as strong as them.


As I explained, I don't think his new variation – which is what your title is about – is that strong. As for his KBs, they're actually largely irrelevant to the character. His F2, 2, 4 is probably his best crushing blow as it gives him somewhat of a threat when it comes to challenging his stagger game. But it only works once per match and after that you only risk eating like 7% max from his 4 ender.

Some characters can seem like they have really oppressive offense because you're overlooking certain solutions to deal with them. That was the case for me back in MKX when I bumped into a pro-level Hellfire Scorpion player. He demolished me the first game by using run-cancels for continued pressure. Then I figured out it would be better to let him land the last hit of his most used string as it would send me across the screen to safety for only like 5% damage. Totally worth it. I ended up besting him and he ragequit.

Back to Kabal, I explain more in-depth why I think people are overestimating him due to lack of knowledge here:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/253573-mortal-kombat-11/77946621

I certainly don't have a history of "downplaying" my mains and I'm not doing it now either. You can see me saying similar things about Sub-Zero, a character I have no intention of using, as well, and I did the exact opposite for Reptile, who I mained in MKX, when everyone was calling him trash.
I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space -- were it not that I have bad dreams ...
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: LightningAce11

LightningAce11
4 days ago#40
I'm not just talking about his new variation, I'm talking about his character as a whole. My whole first post talks about this.
https://i.imgtc.ws/nDVyBfn.gif
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