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  3. How is Raiden not top tier?
The short answer is frame data. He has too slow start up on many moves and poor recovery on others including being punishable on moves he shouldn't be.
In the end the most important things are the basics.

User Info: generalguy64

generalguy64
4 days ago#12
To get the answer, I must consult the Elder Gods.
I once had a dream where Vulpix was playable in Smash. I fully support this now.

User Info: Damone

Damone
4 days ago#13
If he was safer, he'd be top tier. He has everything else
ZoneDrones posted...
Nrs would rather give characters more ways to teleport than give them more strings and neutral tools.

Next patch raiden gets an air teleport.


lmao seriously
I have nothing else to say

User Info: PrimalElz

PrimalElz
4 days ago#15
His advancing normals and projectiles have awful start up. Scorpion can have a balanced meal before he teleports.
I love Monster Hunter so much that I made a Gameplay Music Video
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User Info: AfroPrime

AfroPrime
4 days ago#16
Yes, such dangerous advancing normals that everyone can simply walk backwards to whiff punish.
Raiden is so high tier, dawg.

Also I don't get why people still call him a zoner of any kind when he clearly can't do it here.
Waifu culture is cancer.
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: Fell

Fell
4 days ago#17
AfroPrime posted...
Yes, such dangerous advancing normals that everyone can simply walk backwards to whiff punish.
Raiden is so high tier, dawg.

Also I don't get why people still call him a zoner of any kind when he clearly can't do it here.


The only ones saying Raiden is anything above low/mid tier are the ones bad enough to lose to him, or who simply don't know the match up. There isn't a single logical reason why Raiden is high tier, because he simply isn't.
D'vorah, Noob, Jade, Raiden(RIP) - Fell PC Steam

User Info: Damone

Damone
4 days ago#18
Kinda unrelated but I find it funny how hiveminded the NRS FGC is. Using Raiden as an example, people will talk about how trash he is and all it'd take for one person to do extremely well with him to change their mind. There's never room for debate and instead, he's either trash or high/top tier smh. I remember the same thing with Jacqui Briggs when YM was telling everybody she was good and people called him an idiot for it.
With that being said, I personally think Raiden and Johnny Cage are two of the most slept on characters throughout the entire roster.
(edited 4 days ago)
Johnny suffers heavily from his key pressure strings whiffing on crouch blocking females, hit box issues in general, lack of a good mid for pressure and by far the worst KBs ib the game badically beimg jokes.

We can have a discussion, what does Johnny Cage have that people are sleeping on?
In the end the most important things are the basics.

User Info: Fell

Fell
3 days ago#20
Damone posted...
Kinda unrelated but I find it funny how hiveminded the NRS FGC is. Using Raiden as an example, people will talk about how trash he is and all it'd take for one person to do extremely well with him to change their mind. There's never room for debate and instead, he's either trash or high/top tier smh. I remember the same thing with Jacqui Briggs when YM was telling everybody she was good and people called him an idiot for it.
With that being said, I personally think Raiden and Johnny Cage are two of the most slept on characters throughout the entire roster.


Your opinion is fairly useless since Raiden's numerical frames and options are mediocre and those are facts. There is nothing to sleep on since he he simply worse than most characters in MK11 and as such can't be used competitively unless you're a martyr enjoying fighting at a disadvantage. If you lose to Raiden you are either bad, or don't know the match up - or are vastly outplayed.
And when people said Jacqui (or Jax, or Liu) was better than people thought it was very early, MK11 hadn't been out long at all. This is not the case about Raiden, who continues to drop in Tier Lists for every month that passes as people learn more about the game.

While I do agree fans tend to bandwagon/hive mind/sheep after pros do well with someone (Sonic comes to mind), but it has been months and no pro has made Raiden work well in tournaments and casual players can't seem to make him work in KL. Not a single pro (one could argue Dalpha, but that's smaller EU tournaments, or Kombat, but even he, one of the best NRS players in the world, can't make Raiden work in higher placement, but he has done very well with Johnny including winning a tournament against Sonic). People in tournaments are having greater success with even Shao and Kotal, than Raiden. Let that sink in.

Raiden's flaws and mediocre aspects hindering him has been detailed and explained time after time. And yet, now and then some random says he is fine, or slept on, without even offering logical reasoning behind such (an absurd) claim. It gets tiring. All I see is vague, general, personal, subjective opinion about Raiden, which is fairly useless when frames and options offer an actual argument. And that argument says he is low/mid tier.

But what do I know, I was just another Raiden main saying this since day 1.
D'vorah, Noob, Jade, Raiden(RIP) - Fell PC Steam
(edited 3 days ago)
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