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  2. Nioh 2
  3. The Ranged Enthusiast -- Discussion and Research into Ranged Combat in Nioh-2

User Info: AlekTrev006

AlekTrev006
6 days ago#11
alexamster posted...
Ranged combat is a really practical way to get through any stage (excluding duel stages). Hit an enemy from far, and it's almost always one round per enemy... and a player can carry 13 arrows + 7 rounds + 5 cannonballs. That's 20+ mobs taken care of.

Thanks for your kind words, Jedi / Stormy !

-- to alex's point - yeah, the ability to use Ranged combat to complement your melee stuff is one of the things I love about Nioh (and Bloodborne, once they gave us the Simon's Bowblade, and buffed magic / arcane substantially, from the release versions).

In Nioh-2, it does seem the Ranged has at least as much if not more potential (though, as we noted, we gotta get our Shadowround's, at some point !). One thing on the Ammo Capacity I wanted to note, is that with the Saika Clan getting the old "Wind Damage on Rifle Shots" bonus changed to "Extra Rifle Ammo capacity" -- it's arguably in better shape than it was previously.

The Wind elemental added was extremely small...yes, it was still SOME extra damage, but it was never going to actually proc' Blustered on any enemy (you simply couldn't shoot fast enough, nor did the element build up fast enough) to make it useful for that. With the change here in N2, to just extra ammo, it helps by extending how much play you get going through a stage, and gives you more chances (overall) for your Frugality to activate on some foes you KO.

In my own case, with having just joined Saika Clan in Area-3, yesterday sometime ...and getting the starting Rifle Round bonuses... plus that single node in the Samurai Skill Tree (+2 Matchlock rounds)... I am actually able to walk around at 13-Regular Rounds and 11-Roaring Gun Rounds, as my "on-hand" stock !

This is way more than I had in Nioh-1 (I still have my Level-750 there, and just checked his save file - and normally there I am walking around with 11-Regular / 9-Roaring Gun, as my End Game maximum).

And, keep in mind, if the Clan Bonuses work as they did in Nioh-1, we are likely going to see both the Rifle Damage % increase, and the Ammo Capacity ! I'm imagining you could easily see something like 15-Regular / 13-Roaring being easily achievable with only a few weeks of investment in Saika ! Very nice potential.

User Info: MinusN

MinusN
6 days ago#12
Whoa, Hey man it's great to see you here! looking forward to some videos!

User Info: dthomas125

dthomas125
6 days ago#13
AlekTrev006 posted...
In my own case, with having just joined Saika Clan in Area-3, yesterday sometime ...and getting the starting Rifle Round bonuses... plus that single node in the Samurai Skill Tree (+2 Matchlock rounds)... I am actually able to walk around at 13-Regular Rounds and 11-Roaring Gun Rounds, as my "on-hand" stock

Also the ability to buy ammo from the kodama bazaar is useful. Although I'm not entirely sure what causes the bazaar to "restock" is it by making offerings?
China is putting up facial recognition AI cameras in schools to monitor the moods of their students.

User Info: Young_Caesar

Young_Caesar
6 days ago#14
This is relevant to me. I remember the Yatagarasu set in Nioh was speaking to me and wanted to commit to that, but couldn't get his text to drop, so I gave up. He's in this game again and I'm kind of wanting to try that again. I just question if the damage is there. The dps, even with extremely optimal gear, just doesn't seem to be there.
Juicy
(edited 6 days ago)

User Info: dthomas125

dthomas125
6 days ago#15
Young_Caesar posted...
This is relevant to me. I remember the Yatagarasu set in Nioh was speaking to me and wanted to commit to that, but couldn't get his text to drop, so I gave up. He's in this game again and I'm kind of wanting to try that again. I just question if the damage is there. The dps, even with extremely optimal gear, just doesn't seem to be there.

With shadowround in Nioh1 you didn't even need the +20% unlimited ammo from Yatagarasu. But I haven't seen a shadowround equivalent in Nioh2 so Yatagarasu might be the way to go during the body of the mission and switching too Saika for the boss fight just for the added bonus to rifle damage. I just farmed him yesterday on pervading waters mission. Took me all day to get the armor text and the rifle text to drop. The problem is he will drop other random texts. I got the rifle on my 3rd try, then I got 3 other unrelated weapon texts before getting the armor after about 40 tries. Pro tip there is a shrine just before the fight with him so I "left game" and copied my save file to a usb then reloaded it when I didn't get the drop I wanted. It's kinda cheap but it beats running through that mission 40+ times.
China is putting up facial recognition AI cameras in schools to monitor the moods of their students.

User Info: Boxsterman

Boxsterman
6 days ago#16
With Alex back, and Lupi making increasing appearances, the Nioh2 board suddenly feels like 'home' again!

Hey Alex - thanks for the comprehensive, scholastic writings ... nice to see and a pleasure to read. Good to hear that you are enjoying your N2 explorations and experiments.
"I'm not getting old, I'm evolving!" Keith Richards

User Info: AlekTrev006

AlekTrev006
5 days ago#17
Young_Caesar posted...
This is relevant to me. I remember the Yatagarasu set in Nioh was speaking to me and wanted to commit to that, but couldn't get his text to drop, so I gave up. He's in this game again and I'm kind of wanting to try that again. I just question if the damage is there. The dps, even with extremely optimal gear, just doesn't seem to be there.


It's always a case of "burst damage" / spike-damage over DPS, with the Ranged combat methods. You sacrifice some element of DPS for a single "Boom" - big hit that blows apart the foe in (ideally) 1 or 2 shots to their weak spots. Granted, it takes a long time to get to that level of sheer power -- but that's part of the fun of Nioh's RPG system...you work your way up, with leveling, Tempering, item drops, forging, etc - till you finally see how far you've come from that guy in the Training Grounds ;-)

  • Minor Updates:
I now am able to carry 14 Regular Rounds and 12 Roaring Gun rounds ! - I assume my rank with Saika elevated slightly, which is interesting cause in the original game, this only got calculated formally at the end of the week, when the game would see "how you did" with Donations / Glory, etc. Perhaps Nioh-2 calculates "every day" or something, which would be nice. All I can say is that starting a mission with 26 "shots" of my Rifle seems almost unfair for the Yokai (or certainly the Humans, mwhahaha).

Secondly, I'm happy to report that what we used to call the "Slayer Sendoff" (in honor of Nioh-1 board member D_Slayer's idea for it) - still works in Nioh-2. The method is -- apply Weakness (and Sloth, if desired)... then aim at the enemy's Head (typically a Boss in the Duel Fights)... and fire a precise shot with Rifle or Cannon (rifle works best as it's faster, but if the enemy is Blocking they can repel the shots, with crossed swords or such -- as ridiculous as that seems. The Cannon blows through enemy Blocking Attempts - which means they cannot repel its firepower, and will take the hit).

When the shot connects, the enemy will crumple to the ground... during this time, Melee characters would try to run up and hit the Final Blow strike...but a Ranged Enthusiast has enough time to aim downwards at their prone body, and fire 2 shots into them (easier with Matchlock / Rifle Speed Up skill on your gun, etc). The combined damage from the "First Shot" and two more while they are 'eating dirt', is generally enough to take off a sizable amount of their life bar.

If you repeat this later on in the fight, you can typically humble normally fearsome Human bosses, with relative ease - which is wonderful.

----

* a mastered version of this attack method involves using the Cannon as your "lead-off" shot, because Cannon blasts to the head will almost always drop the enemy -- as they cannot block them, normally.... then you immediately fast swap to your secondary weapon (Rifle for strongest effect) and fire into their downed body, as noted above. Later in the fight, if they are blocking extensively, this may become a necessity (as you will end up wasting Rifle shots if they just keep putting up their guard -- but they cannot do this with precise Cannon hits).

User Info: dthomas125

dthomas125
5 days ago#18
AlekTrev006 posted...
a Ranged Enthusiast has enough time to aim downwards at their prone body, and fire 2 shots into them (easier with Matchlock / Rifle Speed Up skill on your gun, etc). The combined damage from the "First Shot" and two more while they are 'eating dirt', is generally enough to take off a sizable amount of their life bar.

Did you happen to test if "damage from behind" still procs when an enemy is on the ground? I haven't tested it yet but it seems I'm doing less damage to downed enemies with rifle rounds than I was in Nioh1
China is putting up facial recognition AI cameras in schools to monitor the moods of their students.

User Info: AlekTrev006

AlekTrev006
5 days ago#19
dthomas125 posted...
Did you happen to test if "damage from behind" still procs when an enemy is on the ground? I haven't tested it yet but it seems I'm doing less damage to downed enemies with rifle rounds than I was in Nioh1

Just got back from work - sorry for the lengthy delay in replying, thomas :-)

I have not 'formally' tested it, but will tonight, as I had unlocked several Duel Missions in Area-3, and can try it out against Obsidian, or Lord Nobunaga himself, and then try "with more damage from behind / Backstab Damage" and then without... and let you know.

I am guessing it might "not" count...only because it seemed almost a Bug that it DID work like that in Nioh-1... even if you were directly "in front of" the downed person, the game still let you Count as though you were "attacking from behind". It was almost like D&D "caught flat-footed and lost your Dex Bonus" - lol.

---

I did have some more positive thoughts / theories on what the potential for Ranged can be, in the later game - as I managed to take down Saika in the story mission, just before I left for work - and got a few pieces of his gear to drop, allowing me to take a look at the "new version" of Saika's Yatagarasu Set !

Comparing it directly to the previous version, I would actually argue that the Nioh-2 Saika's is actually BETTER.

Old version:

2-piece: 1.5% DR and +210 Life from Bullseye hit

4-piece: Close Combat Damage +10.2% and Auto-Target Weak Spots

5-piece: Increase your Attack and Defense +10, while having Yatagarasu Spirit as your active Guardian

7-piece: +20% Unlimited Ammo

------+-------

New Version (Nioh-2)

2-piece: +210 Life back from a Bullseye hit (extremely minor defensive loss from the old version)

3-piece: Dodge Ki Consumption, -10% (this is actually really useful, especially as you'll be dodging often during boss fights, and battles with tougher Yokai, that are able to close range with you rapidly !)

4-piece: Melee Damage +5% (1/2 the physical power buff that the old version gave, but you rarely will be physically hitting things in the end-game anyways, so I consider it not a 'huge' loss / change)

5-piece: Auto Target Weak Spot (this was of marginal use in the original, as I often would "aim manually" to avoid the way this skill had trouble tracking moving foes - but we'll see if it is improved for Nioh-2. Overall, same general effect as the old version offered)

6-piece: 50% chance to lower the Defense of an enemy you strike with a Ranged Weapon ! (this is brand new and a huge improvement over the paltry +10 Attack / Defense for using Yatagarasu Spirit, in the old Set . Even if the effect is a "weaker" version of Weakness Talisman (testing will be done in the future, I assure you) ... it's still a great bonus as it could mean every other shot you take is striking against a less resistant enemy. And it should retain its effect in boss fights (even if the time it lasts will be reduced), allowing for a "Rifle Speed Up" (or other similar bonus) to grant you enough time to take advantage of it regularly, during the battle !

7-piece: 20% Untouched Ammo (identical to its predecessor - and I'm sure it will scale with the Gear's level, just like the default one did)

----------------
----------------

Overall, very impressive and if my maths are good on the %'s... (I'll expand on that later), we should easily be able to get about 65% Untouched Ammo as we walk around near the end of New Game... to say nothing of later difficulties possibly allowing for improved Gear (Ethereal) and Leveling up of Guardian Spirits, as in Nioh-1. And that's WITHOUT Shadowround currently being in the game. So... lots of promise for any aspiring Ranged Enthusiasts out there !

User Info: dthomas125

dthomas125
5 days ago#20
AlekTrev006 posted...
I now am able to carry 14 Regular Rounds and 12 Roaring Gun rounds

I'm at 15/13 with my rifle rounds this morning. I think you may be onto something about it being tied to clan rank because last night I was at 14/12 and this morning the clan battle info updated and I'm at 15/13.

AlekTrev006 posted...
50% chance to lower the Defense of an enemy you strike with a Ranged Weapon

This procs quite often for me.

AlekTrev006 posted...
we should easily be able to get about 65% Untouched Ammo

Yes with Yatagarasu set I'm sure. I'm hoping we can get close to that without needing all 7 pieces of Yatagarasu though. Have you (or anyone) seen "untouched ammo" on a soul core? I've yet to find one.
China is putting up facial recognition AI cameras in schools to monitor the moods of their students.
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