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  3. What was the difference between this and 2016

User Info: Horridhal

Horridhal
3 months ago#1
That made this game so much less than the 2016 version? Was it a different developer or lead designer?

Before the fanboys come in to defend, I’ve beaten the game on nightmare on my pc, currently doing the same for my PlayStation. It’s been a while since I played it on my pc and since the deluxe edition was on sale, figured I’d pick it up. Even played through 2016 again and damn that game was good.

This one isn’t even close to being on par with it. Between low ammo, forced usage of gimicky secondaries, all the friggin platforming in between fights, the graphic changes, especially in regards to pickups which used to be seamlessly included as part of the map and now are basically neon copies of the ones in the 90’s games, it’s just so much less than the 2016 version for numerous reasons beyond these.

So what was the difference between the two that led to them basically scrapping the majority of why I loved the 2016 version for this monstrosity? I’ll be honest, I dig the doom watchtower, the auto travel back to portions, and some of the other quality of life stuff, but I wanted those things on the 2016 version. Not this platforming super Mario brother stuff.
I'm not the nicest person you'll meet.
#'s are stupid. I don't watch YouTube links posted in threads.

User Info: Delta123456789

Delta123456789
3 months ago#2
You aren't the only one to dislike the limited ammo system but I know just as many people, myself included, who didn't have a problem with it. It's basically a logical extension of the design principles in 2016. 2016 said "if you want health, use a melee kill" and Eternal added "if you want armour/ammo use your flamethrower/chainsaw". The chainsaw was cool in 2016 but the limited fuel meant some people were hesitent to use it, whereas regenerating fuel and reduced ammo means you're outright encouraged to use it as part of your regular gameplay here. They also added the Crucible to replace its function as a one-hit-kill option.

As for the emphasis on specific ways of dealing with certain enemies I personally don't mind it but either way it becomes less important as time goes on and you get better weapons. Past the mid-game it's easier to just stagger an Arachnotron/Revenant with a grenade then charge in and melt them with Super Shotgun>Ballista Shot quick-switching than to faff about sniping weak-points. The Marauder is pretty much the only enemy to outright require a specific strategy (either indirect damage or stun) and even he can be dealt with very quickly in just one or two stuns once you get the hang of quick-switching weapons.

As for platforming 2016 had it too and had it worse IMO seeing as there were trickier sections and you'd die if you fell (Argent Tower climb was especially bad). Here the platforming is easy, usually more about figuring out where to go than actually testing your skills, and it's easy to blaze through on repeat playthroughs (though I'm less keen on climbing as that feels kinda slow).

I personally preferred the art style and item placement in 2016 too. I think 2016 is a much more polished game overall, with lots of cool environmental details, better story and characters and less bugs, but that doesn't make Eternal terrible and I think Eternal's gameplay is stronger.

TL:DR: I really liked 2016 too and you aren't the only one to dislike some of Eternal's gameplay changes, but not everyone was bothered by them the same way you were. It's a matter of personal taste rather than something that makes the game objectively bad.
Not buying a single Activision Blizzard or Ubisoft game again until they've kicked out the abusers and execs who enabled them. No-one should suffer for my fun.
(edited 3 months ago)

User Info: Horridhal

Horridhal
3 months ago#3
Delta123456789 posted...
DR: I really liked 2016 too and you aren't the only one to dislike some of Eternal's gameplay changes, but not everyone was bothered by them the same way you were. It's a matter of personal taste rather than something that makes the game objectively bad.

Cool story. I never said it was objectively bad, though, or made my opinion out to be a fact. It’s super fine you like it, more power to you, but I don’t need a defense of the game or a discussion on why the things I dislike actually have merit. They never will for me.

I want to know what the change was that created all the changes. You say this was a logical progression but it wasn’t. The two games don’t play the same way. Combat was more visceral and took longer in 2016 and there was, regardless of your opinion, far less in terms of platforming than there is in Eternal. There is a lot less choice in Eternal, as well. I’m forced into using specific weapons in ways that never happened in 2016.

As I said, there are quality of life changes that are nice. That said, was it put together by a different development team or something? Because the two games are extremely different in terms of their approaches.
I'm not the nicest person you'll meet.
#'s are stupid. I don't watch YouTube links posted in threads.

User Info: fan357

fan357
3 months ago#4
Lol why are you so confrontational tc? Second post was super chill.
Never forget where you came from.

User Info: Robin_Mask

Robin_Mask
3 months ago#5
The thing is that the director guy just wanted to do his own thing and that's why the game got all these weird changes. Honestly, I had a lot of fun playing the rest of the Doom games on UV, then Doom Eternal is released and it's a boring and tedious game.

Betting it's also why they scraped the bottom of the barrel for nostalgia with the art style and lazily making zombiemen, classic Mancubus, and classic Cyberdemon. Also the fact that both Barons and Knights have robotic counterparts is a lazy ass way to make new enemies.

The story is a mess and the fact that they were stuck between "should we make it humorous or serious?" considering they had serious lines deleted such as Doom Slayer having a family.

Doom Eternal is a disappointment. Honestly, I do think the overhype on Battle Mode and Invasion might have been indicators that they were caring about those useless things that amounted to nothing.
My YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC8OmMlZXYXJmAi_f1vvNPg
Top games this gen: Sekiro>RE2/RE3=DMCV>Witcher 3=RDR2=GOW=BB>Doom>T7>Nioh

User Info: Progenitor

Progenitor
3 months ago#6
Horridhal posted...
Cool story. I never said it was objectively bad, though, or made my opinion out to be a fact. It’s super fine you like it, more power to you, but I don’t need a defense of the game or a discussion on why the things I dislike actually have merit. They never will for me.

I want to know what the change was that created all the changes. You say this was a logical progression but it wasn’t. The two games don’t play the same way. Combat was more visceral and took longer in 2016 and there was, regardless of your opinion, far less in terms of platforming than there is in Eternal. There is a lot less choice in Eternal, as well. I’m forced into using specific weapons in ways that never happened in 2016.

As I said, there are quality of life changes that are nice. That said, was it put together by a different development team or something? Because the two games are extremely different in terms of their approaches.
you could cheese doom 2016 with the super shotgun, the game actually encouraged you to do that because one to two shots melts everything
in eternal you have to use EVERYTHING aside from the crucible which is I don't personally use for some reason
if you've seen high level gameplay, its obvious that the skill ceiling is much higher, makes for a much more repayable game than 2016 was. I get that the higher skill ceiling isn't appealing to everyone, but that doesn't mean the game Is bad, eternal is now akin to DMC or Bayonetta in terms of skill, and we honestly need more games like that.

User Info: Robin_Mask

Robin_Mask
3 months ago#7
Progenitor posted...
you could cheese doom 2016 with the super shotgun, the game actually encouraged you to do that because one to two shots melts everything
in eternal you have to use EVERYTHING aside from the crucible which is I don't personally use for some reason
if you've seen high level gameplay, its obvious that the skill ceiling is much higher, makes for a much more repayable game than 2016 was. I get that the higher skill ceiling isn't appealing to everyone, but that doesn't mean the game Is bad, eternal is now akin to DMC or Bayonetta in terms of skill, and we honestly need more games like that.
2016 didn't encourage anything, it's up to the player to make the game fun or not for themselves. I always switched around for fun in all the other Doom games, conserved ammo when needed, and made sure to use the right weapons. Not using a rocket on Barons in a closed area.

Lol at thinking DE is even anywhere near DMC and Bayo in terms of skill. Those games have an arsenal of attacks and weapons for the player to master at their discretion. The styles add more to Dante as do Nero's arms. The enemy variety is always known in these games. The arsenal gives the player limitless options on how to play the games.

DE is just a bootlegged game that wishes it had the skill level of action games. All you do in this game is turn around, jump, dash, and shoot. All the enemies do are projectile and melee attacks with no variety. Fighting a Fury is not the same as fighting an Angelo in DMCV. The nerfs such as limited ammo and crap like forcing extremely specific strategies in dealing with enemies like the Summoner with plasma microwave and Marauder stun give no freedom in how to play the games.
My YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC8OmMlZXYXJmAi_f1vvNPg
Top games this gen: Sekiro>RE2/RE3=DMCV>Witcher 3=RDR2=GOW=BB>Doom>T7>Nioh

User Info: Horridhal

Horridhal
3 months ago#8
Progenitor posted...
you could cheese doom 2016 with the super shotgun, the game actually encouraged you to do that because one to two shots melts everything

It didn’t encourage anything of the sort. It allowed the player to decide what weapon to use because any of them could be used for any engagement. I could do an entire AR run in 2016, in this one just using zoom shot drops my ammo by ludicrous amounts because somehow zooming in makes me spend more than one bullet.

You are arguing that choice is somehow a bad thing and it isn’t. Being pigeon-holed into having to use specific weapons or needing to constantly manage your ammunition isn’t anywhere near as enjoyable.

Progenitor posted...
eternal is now akin to DMC or Bayonetta in terms of skill, and we honestly need more games like that.

Those games aren’t doom. I grew up playing this game in the 90’s. It should be what it is, not try to be an entirely different genre. I didn’t want to play darksiders and dmc lite, I wanted to play doom.

Robin_Mask posted...
DE is just a bootlegged game that wishes it had the skill level of action games. All you do in this game is turn around, jump, dash, and shoot. All the enemies do are projectile and melee attacks with no variety. Fighting a Fury is not the same as fighting an Angelo in DMCV. The nerfs such as limited ammo and crap like forcing extremely specific strategies in dealing with enemies like the Summoner with plasma microwave and Marauder stun give no freedom in how to play the games.

Agreed.
I'm not the nicest person you'll meet.
#'s are stupid. I don't watch YouTube links posted in threads.

User Info: Delta123456789

Delta123456789
3 months ago#9
Honestly I'm glad Eternal was willing to experiment a bit with mechanics rather than just making 2016 again. It's nice that weapon mods that were useless in 2016 like Precision Shot got new functions, the dash function speeds up gameplay nicely and demons have been made faster to balance that out (with the exception of Hell Knights who still fight the same way and are much less threatening as a result).

The balancing is a lot better here, with stuff that was broken in 2016 being nerfed or receiving new versions with better balance (e.g. the two-shot SSG, siege pulse mod and Rich Get Richer rune) and the BFG is no longer a cheap "I win" button now that miniboss level demons like Barons don't die instantly to it anymore. The Crucible still seems kinda cheap (it's easy to just delete every Archvile once you get it) but thankfully its ammo is rare enough not to skew with the balance too much.

I understand people not liking the weak-point system and limited ammo capacity, but overall Eternal is still closer to 2016 than anything else on the market, and the changes the devs made for a faster, harder and better-balanced game.
Not buying a single Activision Blizzard or Ubisoft game again until they've kicked out the abusers and execs who enabled them. No-one should suffer for my fun.

User Info: yutterh

yutterh
3 months ago#10
The difference is they wanted to do something new and what they thought was a good evolution on top of their previous game. Same dev team and everything.
(edited 3 months ago)
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