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  3. First playthrough, i have 3 questions!

User Info: saxrohmer

saxrohmer
6 months ago#1
Hello, just stumbled across this game while iwas looking for a nice modern jrpg, and am currently doing urpina's quest. Found a nice guide here for her playthrough, so i figured y'all probably have the answers to my early game questions(already tried looking it up, but didnt find the info i want):

1. Reading about it here i learned that she has a side quest to learn dual-wielding. That sounds awesome! Where do i get a second long sword for her to use? Do i need to recruit another long sword user and take it from them, or is there a way to acquire one extra sword around that point in the game?

2. How often should i be halting my progress to upgrade my gear? I've played saga 1-3, frontiers and ramancing 3, so i know that grinding can actually bork a run if i fight too much early on by raising the overall dificulty of the battles past the power of my team.

3. I've added the bandit princess to my team(with axes) so far, and have tried out the lady mage(miriam?) you can get in the second region but she has trouble staying alive during the battles where she would actually be useful. I've read that i will have the opportunity to get a better mage soon once i get to where my father is. Question is: should i just be rushing through as fast as i can to recruit more characters to replace my wimpy starters, or pausing every time i get a new good recruit to grind them up to par?
Five, Seven. Good children get nothing.

User Info: NessEggman

NessEggman
6 months ago#2
1. You'll have to recruit another longsword user, or find one of the towns that gives one as a gift to get another sword. I forget which towns give which gifts, but just visit every town as you come across it and you might stumble upon one that gives you a sword as a gift :) But I know I always have a second sword for her by the time I get there. Maybe you even start with an extra...? I know you start off with a little bit of everything in extra equipment.

2. Grinding in the same one spot (doing the same battle over and over without ever battling at another node) actually causes the monster rank to go up more slowly, so as long as you're not running all over the place, you're pretty safe to grind in this game. And you should be upgrading your gear AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE imo.

3. This one is really just up to you. If you think you're gonna replace them and won't need them before you do, I wouldn't personally waste time on leveling up someone who is just going to go away before they ever become very useful anyway. Being said, it doesn't hurt to have 'backups' in this game, especially if you're not abusing strawberries, as you'll be needing to swap out sometimes when LP gets low.
http://thaao.net/unsaga/
My Unlimited Saga fan site and guide

User Info: saxrohmer

saxrohmer
6 months ago#3
Thank you very much. I had noticed that sometimes towns give me doodads for visiting the first time, but was unsure about whether it was set or random. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a sword and get it upgraded.
Five, Seven. Good children get nothing.

User Info: Synyard

Synyard
6 months ago#4
  1. NessEggman answered this pretty good, but you can get a rare longsword in the haunted mansion in Cerenaif. There’s a chance you’ll find the basement when exploring the node, and the sword is the reward for completing the battle in basement. The chance of finding the basement seems pretty high, and I’ve personally never had to try more than twice. Usually just once though. Cerenaif is the area where the ghost follows you around, and it’s right before the area with the dual-wielding sidequest.
  2. Upgrade gear as soon as possible. Grinding isn’t as bad on this game as other SaGa games, so if you’re only 1-2 battles from upgrading a piece of equipment then I’d go for it. I wouldn’t spend all day grinding, though.
  3. I’d say rush to the better characters, but only because the early characters aren’t so hot. But characters are rubber banded in how fast they grow skills, grow HP, learn techs, and master techs, so it’s not really ever a bad idea to swap in and invest in superior character. So there’s no reason to really rush. Ogniana is good and can be used all game if you like her, but I’d use plenty of different mages over Mirane. Though Mirane is better than the mage the Urpina starts with, whatever his name is. You also run the risk of missing good characters if you rush too much, though most aren’t real strict in their requirements.
"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis

User Info: saxrohmer

saxrohmer
6 months ago#5
@Synyard

I recruited ilyseid, who blows both of the earlier mages out of the water. Its not even fair. She just needs some good healing magic, so time to figure out what staff and influx glimmers her that water healing spell!

On 3, i just found chichi, and statwise she is a direct uprade over Nessa(aside from her LP being low) for the stats that matter on short swords(dex/Mob/acu). Seems like a no-brainer to switch her out, since i can sub in nessa in the event of needing to replenish chichis LP. I guess that leads into my last question:

4. Chichi has great stats for short sword, but her starting weapon is long sword. Do different characters have different growth rates for weapons, like Romancing Saga 3? If so, is there a resource online where i can see this?
Five, Seven. Good children get nothing.

User Info: Synyard

Synyard
6 months ago#6
Elysed is one of the better mages, yes. Try unda/water to get the best healing spell, but there are healing spells in some other elements as well.

Yes, there is proficiency in weapons. Higher proficiency leads to faster tech learning and higher damage. Maybe faster tech mastery, but I’m unsure. I use NessEggman’s site mostly to get an idea of who is good at what.
https://thaao.net/sagasca/character/?p=chara

His site rates their proficiency at a 1-5 when the actual numbers are something like 0-100, but it’s good enough for me. There are spreadsheets that are floating around that give more specific info, but I’m always on mobile so spreadsheets are a hassle for me.
"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis

User Info: saxrohmer

saxrohmer
6 months ago#7
Awesome! I've seen that site before, but thanks for clarifying what the numbers meant(i thought they represented starting proficiency...). So chichi is 3 out of 5 on long and shortsword, so switching weapons wont hobble her learning rate at all.
Five, Seven. Good children get nothing.

User Info: killerb255

killerb255
5 months ago#8
Synyard posted...
Yes, there is proficiency in weapons. Higher proficiency leads to faster tech learning and higher damage. Maybe faster tech mastery, but I’m unsure. I use NessEggman’s site mostly to get an idea of who is good at what.
https://thaao.net/sagasca/character/?p=chara

From what I gather, it seems like proficiency has the most impact on what levels that character's techs and spells start at as well as how much they level up when the player is benched compared to the current Battle Rank.

That's why characters like Nemain and Hagar start off with low levels in spells and weapons respectively if you recruit them late. Likewise if you keep them on the bench, those levels grow verrrrry slowly.

This is also why characters like Colleen, Antonius, Kahn, and Mondo with 100 proficiency in one specific weapon end up having that weapon be at almost the same level as the current Battle Rank when they're benched for a while.

Proficiencies don't seem to do anything for damage, at least when we had a couple of people here test this out with Tissisaaq and Kahn with identical Spear levels and equipment to make their stats identical (Kahn has 100 Proficiency while Tissi's is 75). Perhaps we should test with Kahn and, say, Elysed (0 Spear Proficiency) to see if this hypothesis holds up.

User Info: Synyard

Synyard
5 months ago#9
killerb255 posted...
From what I gather, it seems like proficiency has the most impact on what levels that character's techs and spells start at as well as how much they level up when the player is benched compared to the current Battle Rank.

That's why characters like Nemain and Hagar start off with low levels in spells and weapons respectively if you recruit them late. Likewise if you keep them on the bench, those levels grow verrrrry slowly.

This is also why characters like Colleen, Antonius, Kahn, and Mondo with 100 proficiency in one specific weapon end up having that weapon be at almost the same level as the current Battle Rank when they're benched for a while.

Proficiencies don't seem to do anything for damage, at least when we had a couple of people here test this out with Tissisaaq and Kahn with identical Spear levels and equipment to make their stats identical (Kahn has 100 Proficiency while Tissi's is 75). Perhaps we should test with Kahn and, say, Elysed (0 Spear Proficiency) to see if this hypothesis holds up.
Yeah, I was in that topic and I posted in it as well.
Kahn and Tississaq don’t have identical stats. Their strength stat is different if you’re testing spears.
And I did a test as well using Lewis and Yohman who had identical weapon levels, strength, no roles, same equipment, etc, and there was a big difference, but they were both low level clubs. Maybe the difference fades when you get to higher weapon levels because I tested at low levels, but from what I’ve noticed, it seems to matter all the way up. Like I had Chiago go bows one file and his damage was pretty lackluster, which would makes no sense if proficiency didn’t matter because his stats and unique role should make him a bow beast. But he just wasn’t.
Meanwhile, I’ve had Elisabeth and Kahn both go bows and they were both great. Higher damage than Chiago, which really doesn’t make sense because their stats aren’t really there for bows.
I encourage you to retest it if you don’t believe me. I’ll do another test after work today and post the results.
"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis

User Info: Synyard

Synyard
5 months ago#10
Well s***. I just spent like 4 hours training and setting up my characters just right and then testing only to make a rookie mistake. I was going to redo the test, but after thinking about it, I think the data is still usable. It’s just not as clean and precise as I’d like it to be.

I tested Kumi, Maximius, Colleen, Snail, and Compass.
I chose them because they all have 11 Dexterity and I happened to have them in my current party.
I raised all of their shortswords level to 9, so it was the exact same for all of them.
They were all equipped with the Saber weapon, a shortsword with 34 attack. This also increases dexterity by 1, so they all had 12 dexterity.
All have no roles equipped.
All have armor that doesn’t modify dexterity.

According to NessEggman’s website, Kumi, Maximius, and Colleen are all a “3” in shortswords, while Snail and Compass are a “1.” It’s hard for me to navigate the spreadsheets on mobile so I don’t really know what their proficiencies really are.

For the test, I simply used Quick Thrust on an Evil Worm 10 times with each of them and recorded the damage.

The mistake that I made is that Quick Thrust scales with both dexterity and mobility, and my characters have wildly varying mobility.

Kumi: 56, 49, 57, 56, 50, 51, 57, 56, 51, 54
Average: 53.7
Mobility:8

Maximius: 47, 43, 43, 45, 44, 46, 47, 48, 49, 46
Average: 45.8
Mobility: 3

Colleen: 52, 54, 53, 51, 57, 57, 55, 56, 51, 57
Average: 54.3
Mobility: 10

Snail: 31, 34, 32, 31, 27, 28, 28, 33, 32, 30
Average: 30.6
Mobility: 4

Compass: 34, 33, 27, 26, 32, 27, 30, 31, 28, 33
Average: 30.1
Mobility: 8

So Kumi had -4 on mobility due to equipment and Compass had -1 on mobility, so they both had 8. I thought I wasted all this time but at least those 2 are the same.

So comparing Kumi to Compass, who both had 12 dexterity, 8 mobility, 9 shortswords, same weapon, and no roles, Kumi did 78.41% more damage than Compass on average. That’s quite significant. The only difference should be that innate weapon proficiency.

Kumi isn’t even particularly good at shortswords, either. She’s proficient but it’s not her preferred weapon or anything. She’s just a “3.” So I imagine someone with higher proficiency would do much more than 78% damage more.

Also Maximius did more damage than Snail despite having lower mobility as well. Just another thing to consider.
"It's not working. The banana is not melting."
-Masaokis
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