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User Info: Rango

Rango
1 month ago#41
Regal_Bryant12 posted...
The Nintendo fanbase is just terrible in general. Something about their games just attract the worst kind of adult (and kids/teens are almost always obnoxious)

I've heard Pokemon is particularly bad. I already know how entitled old fans are with Sw/Sh. But people will gatekeep fans of Gen VI and VII and swear up and down that Gen IV and V were the best.

I know nothing of competitive Pokemon.
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User Info: NicoRobin007

NicoRobin007
1 month ago#42
AVeryBoringName posted...
If you are able to acknowledge you being vindictive, then why do you continue? I get that there are some horrible people in the competitive community, but completely getting rid of it? That's both overkill and petty. There are plenty of fine folks who enjoy competitive play and would wish to continue tournaments.

Bad people exist in every community. Don't judge an entire fanbase over it, judge people by a case by case basis. I've met plenty of nice people to talk to who are into competitive Smash and I also have met people who were annoying Melee only elitists.

Yeah, not even going to bother responding to his response of me at this point. If you acknowledge that you're emotionally compromised, there's no point in taking your opinion in good faith anymore. You hit the nail on the head. If your goal is to be vindictive, that's a stupid goal.

And TC is ignoring the any valid points. Creepers is not a Smash problem. Creepers is a 18-35 year old mainly male demographic that grow up learning how society and relationships work through screens instead of in personal interactions, so they're not well adjusted. It's not just being perverted either. Their opinions are largely detached from reality as well. It happens in every gaming community. It's nothing against people that like games. Obviously I love Smash and other games, but it's about the right mix. No clue what killing off competitive Smash would do. Even if Smash players were the worst, which who knows, they'd move on to another game.

Just get rid of the confirmed weirdos, stop mixing minors with adults in after tournament parties, and try to make it better. We don't get rid of the MLB just because a decent amount of them roid up.
6/11/19- Sakurai granted my wish and ended 20 years of hoping. Guh-huh!
Still low key hoping for Toad/Dixie in Smash one day. And a Banjo game.

User Info: kirbinderbin

kirbinderbin
1 month ago#43
As much as I think it's overkill to want a entire community to suffer, and though I think you're being hypocritical for pointing out all this happening in Smash while treating the rest of the FGC like it ISN'T just as bad (Street Fighter's community has had major racial conflicts since the 90s for example), I do overall agree with this, the sexual harassment stuff is just one part of a generally awful (I'm not using the word "Toxic" because it's basically become as overused as "Cringe" at this point) fanbase, one that has been like this ever since Brawl.
I don't think Smash as a whole deserves to get plucked from the entirety of competitive sports (a lot of the treatment from the FGC in the past wasn't because of the fanbase's behavior, but because Smash isn't as complex as Tekken, Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom, Darkstalkers, etc. They were mostly being elitist, like how most of the Smash Community treats Melee, and how most of the Melee community treat Hungrybox. People just love to hate on somewhat lesser things.), maybe make it more like Street Fighter tournaments, were there are actual LIMITS as to what audience members can do, bring, say, etc.

Also, at the end of the day, I hate to be a negative nancy, but the chances of Smash Ultimate dying out competitive wise is impossible so long as it's the most recent Smash game, Nintendo's gonna keep sponsoring it, literally preventing it from dying out. And if the next Smash game is drastically different from Ultimate, we'll likely have another Melee case (For better or for worse).

If you want to distance yourself from this community, go right ahead, it'd be hypocritical and quite spoiled of me to say otherwise. I won't try to pull the "Think of the good people" card either because not everyone meets many friends from a specific game or two. I'll just say for now that if you do end up being right about this, you have every right to taunt me in the future (If we ever cross paths again).

Also at least try the fanmade mods for Brawl and Ultimate, they're stupidly fun and their meant for the party scene of Smash, you know, the good scene.

Rango posted...
I've heard Pokemon is particularly bad. I already know how entitled old fans are with Sw/Sh. But people will gatekeep fans of Gen VI and VII and swear up and down that Gen IV and V were the best.
I don't think wanting stuff that used to be in every previous title as well as major quality improvements from a Billion dollar franchise is "Entitled".
People do gatekeep alot though, I used to think Gens 6 and 7 where games everyone agreed were better, though now it seems like my thoughts on both are more like minority opinions...
I'm a loser that likes Kirby,Pikmin,MegaMan,FireEmblem,JoJo,Konosuba,ShieldHero, and DevilMayCry. You can make fun of me all you want, I probably deserve it.

User Info: Dark_Zoroark

Dark_Zoroark
1 month ago#44
I feel like it needs to die because of how entitled and whiny they are.
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User Info: robill18

robill18
1 month ago#45
This is a stupid amount of hyperbole. Toss the creeps in the trash bin and keep it moving. Kids should never be allowed at these events unsupervised anyways.
Ghost ride the unicycle.

User Info: Rango

Rango
1 month ago#46
NicoRobin007 posted...
Yeah, not even going to bother responding to his response of me at this point. If you acknowledge that you're emotionally compromised, there's no point in taking your opinion in good faith anymore. You hit the nail on the head. If your goal is to be vindictive, that's a stupid goal.

And TC is ignoring the any valid points. Creepers is not a Smash problem. Creepers is a 18-35 year old mainly male demographic that grow up learning how society and relationships work through screens instead of in personal interactions, so they're not well adjusted. It's not just being perverted either. Their opinions are largely detached from reality as well. It happens in every gaming community. It's nothing against people that like games. Obviously I love Smash and other games, but it's about the right mix. No clue what killing off competitive Smash would do. Even if Smash players were the worst, which who knows, they'd move on to another game.

Just get rid of the confirmed weirdos, stop mixing minors with adults in after tournament parties, and try to make it better. We don't get rid of the MLB just because a decent amount of them roid up.

18-35 weirdos is a generalization. You're forgetting one of the single biggest problems in the community came from a malignant sociopath who has been plaguing the scene since he was 15.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Smasher:CaptainZack#Controversies

The players who love Smash but can't stand the community have long moved onto other games.

https://twitter.com/Palushina/status/1295372265161232388?s=20

Does it happen in other communities? Of course, but to a lesser extent. SF might have had its fair share of s***lords. But you're never going to get the microcrosm of toxicity in FGC social media as you will with the Smash community simply because the latter is bigger. As a result, it's more toxic.

And that's not including the sexual abuse going on within the Smash scene on the scale that it did.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/hjfv0y/summary_of_sexual_and_nonsexual_allegations/

kirbinderbin posted...
Also, at the end of the day, I hate to be a negative nancy, but the chances of Smash Ultimate dying out competitive wise is impossible so long as it's the most recent Smash game, Nintendo's gonna keep sponsoring it, literally preventing it from dying out. And if the next Smash game is drastically different from Ultimate, we'll likely have another Melee case (For better or for worse).

This is the only point of contention I have in your post. And to that I have a simple response:

Nintendo was minimally involved in offline tournaments to begin with. They will continue promoting online tournaments for Smash simply because they can control the direction it goes in. After July, though, assuming we ever get large-scale tournaments in Smash ever again, Nintendo will probably reduce any support they already had going further.

kirbinderbin posted...
I don't think wanting stuff that used to be in every previous title as well as major quality improvements from a Billion dollar franchise is "Entitled".
People do gatekeep alot though, I used to think Gens 6 and 7 where games everyone agreed were better, though now it seems like my thoughts on both are more like minority opinions...

Also this. When it gets to the point that you're trying to turn-off fans from enjoying the game, it becomes a problem. But once again, that's about my extent to knowing about Pokemon toxicity outside of hearsay.

robill18 posted...
This is a stupid amount of hyperbole. Toss the creeps in the trash bin and keep it moving. Kids should never be allowed at these events unsupervised anyways.

This is also hyperbolic. Because you assume we're just going to deal with all the predators on a mass-level and assume everything is well and good again like it used to be. That's a leap of blind faith to assume that we will ever deal with the rest of the issues and behavior plaguing the scene without moderating it properly.

Okay so let's say we don't have any majors next year. Let's say Momocon doesn't hold a huge pot bonus and CEO/EVO don't host Smash. Let's say we don't get Shine this year or Smash Con gets severely downgraded to a regional event. So what do we have?

We have a broken scene with local, state, and regional players wanting to come back and compete. They will surely try to rebuild the scene to what it once was. But in doing so, they'll be blindly ignoring many of the problems which stemmed from social media's toxic behavior. You'll surely still see comments of players gatekeeping and harassing one-another.

The problem here is nothing gets done. You're free to insult someone else's girlfriend on Twitch chat and expect no punishment from authority figures in the scene. So long as that behavior continues, Smash will continue pushing people out of the scene. Even if we were to say, in a vacuum, that sexual harassment ended in Smash and the creeps were "weeded out," we would still have every other problem that has plagued this scene for years.

And by years, I largely mean from 2015-2020. Back on AllisBrawl, it was never this bad. Once Twitter got big, Smash 4 got big. We got notice from outsiders looking in and received more attention than we could handle.

I propose that if you want the scene back, hold TOs accountable for its local/state scene's players' behavior. You see someone gatekeeping, bullying, or harassing another player? Report them.

2GG is among the few TOs I have ever seen do anything. They banned Captain Zack from all events and suspended Elegant for 30 days for punching a hole in the wall. But for anytime I've seen s*** happen in my scene, I've seen nothing get done. I've had to be the one to talk sense into people for doing bulls*** and I'm just a player and TO in my local scene.

Hold players accountable and present consequences when they screw up. If you want to "weed the creeps" out we need to begin reporting bad behavior in our scene going forward. If you want to invite new players for the scene to start growing, we need to be better than being known as "entitled man children."
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