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  3. Is there a third party series that got the shaft harder than Resident Evil?

User Info: MeepleLardicle

MeepleLardicle
1 week ago#81
A few things...

First off, Monster Hunter in Smash:

Unlike MvCI, Smash has outlets to allow the actual Monsters to be used, and there is no better rep of Monster Hunter than Rathalos He is the flagship of the entire franchise, the first thing most people think of when it comes to Monster Hunter, what have you. He is to Monster Hunter what Pikachu is to Pokemon. It doesn't matter that you play as Red, Brendan, Rosa, etc. it's the Pokemon that are the stars, hence why Pikachu is the face of Pokemon. Likewise, Monster Hunter's big thing is the Monsters. Thanks to ATs and Bosses, Rathalos could get in, albeit not playable.

That being said, Capcom clearly views the Monsters as the stars, not the Hunters. You an argue and whine all you want, but please go look at how Monster Hunter is historically repped. For example, Teppen, nearly all the cards are based off monsters (until recently when they put a Palico in apparently). Here, let me demonstrate!

First off, for Hero campaigns you can play as, we have Rathalos and Nergigante.
Next off the cards themselves, in no particular order beyond "how quickly I found them", a multiplier means there's more than one card, and a "name" listed like that means it's some kind of effect card, I'll list the art next to it. in some cases, I'm just abbreviating, eg a card called "Teostra, Infernal King" I'll just call it "Teostra".

-Astalos (x2)
-"Turf War" (art is between Mizutsune and I THINK Lagiacrus...yes, ironic it's between two not in World but I didn't make the art)
-Diablos (x2)
-Mizutsune
-"Boltreavor's Valor" (seems to be an attack card related to Astalos, having art of his Deviant form)
-Bloodbath Frenzy (Art involves Bloodbath Diablos)
-Brachydios
-"Natural Cycle" (art involves Xeno'jiva)
-Kulve Taroth
-"Lava Armor" (art involves Lavasioth)
-Deviljho
-Second Wind (Akuma vs. Nergigante)
-"Quicksand" (Picture of a hunter caught in Quicksand while the those flying monsters in Wildfire Wastes are in the background)
-"Full Potential" (Ryu vs. Nergigante)
-Shagaru Magala
-"Lurking in the Mud" (Riquo from Darkstalkers vs. Jyrutados (SP?))
-Vaal Hazak
-Dalamadur
-Teostra
-Kirin
-"Bladescale Storm" (Art of Seregios)
-Kushala Daora
-"Outnumbered" (a bunch of "Small" monsters with their Alpha, I am not going to pretend I know which one offhand)
-Tigrex
-Rathalos
-"Dragonlord's Judgment" (Art of Rathalos breathing fire)
-"Roaring Typhoon" (Kushala Daora creating a tornado)
-Xeno'jiva
-Nergigante

So of all the cards, literally one has a hunter, and it's a picture of him getting hit by an environmental hazard. Everything else is either a Monster, or directly correlated to a Monster. The recent event is only just NOW adding a Palico, which still points out that Capcom does not associate "The Hunter" with Monster Hunter, but the Monsters.

Want another example? Puzzles and Dragons. Near as I can tell, every single character was one of the monsters, there was not a single "Hunter" character in there. But here, let me show you a list:

Amatasu, Diablos, Kirin, Rathalos, Glavenus, Mizutsune, Valphalk (looks like a mistranslated for "Valstrax"), Rathian, Nargacua, Tigrex, Gammoth, Astalos.

And you can't go "Well of course they won't, it's just a hunter!" They could easily go like "Greatsword Hunter" "Switch Axe Hunter" etc., and have them all in unique armor sets to make them distinct. But they didn't; instead, they went entirely with the monsters.

Doesn't that at all highlight that in Capcom's eyes, the Monsters are the stars, not the Hunters? You'll notice that with a few stray exceptions, they even consistently focus on Flagships. Only exceptions are popular mainstays like Kirin and Diablos, a final boss (Xeno'jiva) and Rathian who is really just the female counterpart to a flagship.

That being said, in regards to Resident Evil..

While the franchise is huge, that doesn't justify it getting into Smash in and of itself. Resident Evil just isn't really "Smash Material" if that makes sense. The characters aren't really distinct in fighting style nor do they have anything that really stands out (people will twist things, but in the end, they really don't distinguish themselves.) Likewise, it's not really a character driven series.

This is something that people need to understand: Just because it exists and is popular doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea for Smash.

Resident Evil was no doubt a situation like that. It's big...but it's hard to really fit into Smash in a way that compliments it, as opposed to clashing with it.
Snake is an exception, not the norm, before someone plays that card (and even then, Metal Gear Solid has a larger aire of Self-awareness that Resident Evil generally doesn't have...RE4 aside which yes, it being a self-aware satire of the series up to that point was the entire purpose of that game's story-line.)

It's not like RE got completely shafted. They probably could have gotten something more, like maybe a Nemesis Assist Trophy or a Stage (since RE is all about the Atmosphere, a Stage would be an appropriate representation), but characters just feel off.
Stormblood Abridged: My subpar FF14 Parody!
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=6929.0

User Info: JunDageki

JunDageki
1 week ago#82
RollerBob posted...
At least Resident Evil had a spirit event... Final Fantasy doesn't even have a SINGLE spirit... not even in a recent event.

AarturoSc posted...
Exactly.
Smash devs throw an event to reference/celebrate other series that otherwise wouldn’t be in the game. Some entitled people: “THEY ARE GIVING US THE MIDDLE FINGER!!! F*€# YOU, SAKURAI!!”
Not sure if serious, but just in case you guys are, Final Fantasy got a playable character, a stage, Mii costume(?), and soundtrack, that's the highest celebration treatment a franchise can get in this series, to say FF had something bad for not getting spirits...i hope you realize how extremely ironic it sounds when you call others entitled.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

User Info: Extremmefan

Extremmefan
1 week ago#83
JunDageki posted...
Mii costume(?)
The only FF Mii costume that's ever been in Smash is a Chocobo hat back in Sm4sh btw (and it hasn't returned for Ult).
Not going against anything else you said, just pointing this one thing out. :)
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User Info: RollerBob

RollerBob
1 week ago#84
JunDageki posted...
Not sure if serious, but just in case you guys are, Final Fantasy got a playable character, a stage, Mii costume(?), and soundtrack, that's the highest celebration treatment a franchise can get in this series, to say FF had something bad for not getting spirits...i hope you realize how extremely ironic it sounds when you call others entitled.
Let's see...
  • Cloud doesn't have a Fighter Spirit due to licensing issues.
  • Midgard is essentially a reskinned Battlefield with hazards; turning off hazards = battlefield mode
  • In Sm4sh, Cloud didn't have an English voice due to union.
  • In Ultimate, Cloud STILL doesn't have an English voice due to union, be Steve Burton or Cody Christian.
  • In Sm4sh, there wasn't more trophies, like for FF7 characters or even the Summons.
  • In Ultimate, there is still no FF7 characters or even Summons as spirits and/or Assist Trophies.
  • In Sm4sh, we only had 2 music tracks.
  • In Ultimate, we STILL only have 2 music tracks.
  • Oh, and the Chocobo Mii costume is still missing...
Look, it's pretty telling that Konami, of all companies, brought back Metal Gear and Snake, in addition of bringing Castlevania, and that both Capcom and Sega brought both old and new stuff, but Square Enix still cannot do the same. Yes, we got the Trials of Mana spirits... but I really feel like it was done with a grudge, like if Square Enix didn't want to, but Nintendo highlighted the small prints of their contracts.
Yes, I'm Canadian. Yes, I speak French. Yes, I live in Quebec.

User Info: JunDageki

JunDageki
1 week ago#85
MeepleLardicle posted...
A few things...

First off, Monster Hunter in Smash:

Unlike MvCI, Smash has outlets to allow the actual Monsters to be used, and there is no better rep of Monster Hunter than Rathalos He is the flagship of the entire franchise, the first thing most people think of when it comes to Monster Hunter, what have you. He is to Monster Hunter what Pikachu is to Pokemon. It doesn't matter that you play as Red, Brendan, Rosa, etc. it's the Pokemon that are the stars, hence why Pikachu is the face of Pokemon. Likewise, Monster Hunter's big thing is the Monsters. Thanks to ATs and Bosses, Rathalos could get in, albeit not playable.

That being said, Capcom clearly views the Monsters as the stars, not the Hunters. You an argue and whine all you want, but please go look at how Monster Hunter is historically repped. For example, Teppen, nearly all the cards are based off monsters (until recently when they put a Palico in apparently). Here, let me demonstrate!

First off, for Hero campaigns you can play as, we have Rathalos and Nergigante.
Next off the cards themselves, in no particular order beyond "how quickly I found them", a multiplier means there's more than one card, and a "name" listed like that means it's some kind of effect card, I'll list the art next to it. in some cases, I'm just abbreviating, eg a card called "Teostra, Infernal King" I'll just call it "Teostra".

-Astalos (x2)
-"Turf War" (art is between Mizutsune and I THINK Lagiacrus...yes, ironic it's between two not in World but I didn't make the art)
-Diablos (x2)
-Mizutsune
-"Boltreavor's Valor" (seems to be an attack card related to Astalos, having art of his Deviant form)
-Bloodbath Frenzy (Art involves Bloodbath Diablos)
-Brachydios
-"Natural Cycle" (art involves Xeno'jiva)
-Kulve Taroth
-"Lava Armor" (art involves Lavasioth)
-Deviljho
-Second Wind (Akuma vs. Nergigante)
-"Quicksand" (Picture of a hunter caught in Quicksand while the those flying monsters in Wildfire Wastes are in the background)
-"Full Potential" (Ryu vs. Nergigante)
-Shagaru Magala
-"Lurking in the Mud" (Riquo from Darkstalkers vs. Jyrutados (SP?))
-Vaal Hazak
-Dalamadur
-Teostra
-Kirin
-"Bladescale Storm" (Art of Seregios)
-Kushala Daora
-"Outnumbered" (a bunch of "Small" monsters with their Alpha, I am not going to pretend I know which one offhand)
-Tigrex
-Rathalos
-"Dragonlord's Judgment" (Art of Rathalos breathing fire)
-"Roaring Typhoon" (Kushala Daora creating a tornado)
-Xeno'jiva
-Nergigante

So of all the cards, literally one has a hunter, and it's a picture of him getting hit by an environmental hazard. Everything else is either a Monster, or directly correlated to a Monster. The recent event is only just NOW adding a Palico, which still points out that Capcom does not associate "The Hunter" with Monster Hunter, but the Monsters.

Want another example? Puzzles and Dragons. Near as I can tell, every single character was one of the monsters, there was not a single "Hunter" character in there. But here, let me show you a list:

Amatasu, Diablos, Kirin, Rathalos, Glavenus, Mizutsune, Valphalk (looks like a mistranslated for "Valstrax"), Rathian, Nargacua, Tigrex, Gammoth, Astalos.

And you can't go "Well of course they won't, it's just a hunter!" They could easily go like "Greatsword Hunter" "Switch Axe Hunter" etc., and have them all in unique armor sets to make them distinct. But they didn't; instead, they went entirely with the monsters.

Doesn't that at all highlight that in Capcom's eyes, the Monsters are the stars, not the Hunters? You'll notice that with a few stray exceptions, they even consistently focus on Flagships. Only exceptions are popular mainstays like Kirin and Diablos, a final boss (Xeno'jiva) and Rathian who is really just the female counterpart to a flagship.

That being said, in regards to Resident Evil..

While the franchise is huge, that doesn't justify it getting into Smash in and of itself. Resident Evil just isn't really "Smash Material" if that makes sense. The characters aren't really distinct in fighting style nor do they have anything that really stands out (people will twist things, but in the end, they really don't distinguish themselves.) Likewise, it's not really a character driven series.

This is something that people need to understand: Just because it exists and is popular doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea for Smash.

Resident Evil was no doubt a situation like that. It's big...but it's hard to really fit into Smash in a way that compliments it, as opposed to clashing with it.
Snake is an exception, not the norm, before someone plays that card (and even then, Metal Gear Solid has a larger aire of Self-awareness that Resident Evil generally doesn't have...RE4 aside which yes, it being a self-aware satire of the series up to that point was the entire purpose of that game's story-line.)

It's not like RE got completely shafted. They probably could have gotten something more, like maybe a Nemesis Assist Trophy or a Stage (since RE is all about the Atmosphere, a Stage would be an appropriate representation), but characters just feel off.
Can't have Monster Hunter without the hunter, you digressed way too much MvCi for no valid reason whatsoever, you also ignoring that the hunters are being merchandised, they don't ignore it, you also ignored that they have in fact used the hunters for collaborations as well. the hunter for Lost Planet 2, MvCi like previously stated, and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaMmrDLyqwg

either you ignored, or forgot,whatever the case, you got incomplete information.

and most importantly you completely, ABSOLUTELY, forgot the existence of Monster Hunter games, which is far more important than all any of your examples when talking about Monster Hunter, the hunter is a major star in it just as much as the monsters, they are all just as important. you made the comparison that MH is more like pokemon, there's a major issue, the trainers don't fight for s***, with the pokemon doing all the action of course they would pick the pokemon in Smash, but in Monster Hunter they do the fighting so they can be used just as much as Hero or any other character, there's 0 issue there..

as for your RE point, it was difficult to read the moment you started with "not smash material" the f*** does that even mean, have you not seen the roster? it's all over the place, there's no specific theme to call "smash material"
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

User Info: A_Field_Lover

A_Field_Lover
1 week ago#86
RollerBob posted...
Let's see...
* Cloud doesn't have a Fighter Spirit due to licensing issues.
* Midgard is essentially a reskinned Battlefield with hazards; turning off hazards = battlefield mode
* In Sm4sh, Cloud didn't have an English voice due to union.
* In Ultimate, Cloud STILL doesn't have an English voice due to union, be Steve Burton or Cody Christian.
* In Sm4sh, there wasn't more trophies, like for FF7 characters or even the Summons.
* In Ultimate, there is still no FF7 characters or even Summons as spirits and/or Assist Trophies.
* In Sm4sh, we only had 2 music tracks.
* In Ultimate, we STILL only have 2 music tracks.
* Oh, and the Chocobo Mii costume is still missing...
Look, it's pretty telling that Konami, of all companies, brought back Metal Gear and Snake, in addition of bringing Castlevania, and that both Capcom and Sega brought both old and new stuff, but Square Enix still cannot do the same. Yes, we got the Trials of Mana spirits... but I really feel like it was done with a grudge, like if Square Enix didn't want to, but Nintendo highlighted the small prints of their contracts.
Final Fantasy is still less shafted than Resident Evil

And it wasn't in a grudge, FF's probably one of the messiest in terms of rights among Square Enix.
Nerd girl who's passionate, Bandana Dee for Smash!
#1 Assist Trophy, Galeem, Lonato & FE Echoes Lover! F to Geno, BWD + Isaac. Hero's in!

User Info: RuiNergigante

RuiNergigante
1 week ago#87
MeepleLardicle posted...
And you can't go "Well of course they won't, it's just a hunter!" They could easily go like "Greatsword Hunter" "Switch Axe Hunter" etc., and have them all in unique armor sets to make them distinct.
No. You only need one hunter. And having one is enough. That is literally all you need. A s*** ton of monsters and one hunter. It's that easy.

So your whole long ass "argument" falls apart right there. Thanks for proving me right.

Now bring them to Smash.

Or bring in a popular monster. Hey, MHW is still new and they did promise a new Switch game. There's a big spikey boy just raring to go and smash Rosalina's face. Just saying.
Breaking my limits!

User Info: DigitalHazard

DigitalHazard
1 week ago#88
RuiNergigante posted...
Monster Hunter got shafted harder.

>AT boss, first in the series too
>Boss arena that looks like leftovers from a scrapped stage
>Two music tracks shafted into the "other" category, as if the actual character got scrapped
>Still no announcement of an actual fighter because lol f*** you ARMS time

f***ing tease.
Soooo...How is this worse than just having 4 pngs again?

User Info: A_Field_Lover

A_Field_Lover
1 week ago#89
RuiNergigante posted...
No. You only need one hunter. And having one is enough. That is literally all you need. A s*** ton of monsters and one hunter. It's that easy.

So your whole long ass "argument" falls apart right there. Thanks for proving me right.

Now bring them to Smash.

Or bring in a popular monster. Hey, MHW is still new and they did promise a new Switch game. There's a big spikey boy just raring to go and smash Rosalina's face. Just saying.
Monster Hunter >>> Resident Evil in representation

Huge well crafted boss + Mii costume (not counting spirits) outranks 4 jpegs.
Nerd girl who's passionate, Bandana Dee for Smash!
#1 Assist Trophy, Galeem, Lonato & FE Echoes Lover! F to Geno, BWD + Isaac. Hero's in!

User Info: Extremmefan

Extremmefan
1 week ago#90
A_Field_Lover posted...
Monster Hunter >>> Resident Evil in representation

Huge well crafted boss + Mii costume (not counting spirits) outranks 4 jpegs.
a) neither of the Mii costumes came back from 4 yet (afaik)
and
b) that's PNGs, not JPEGs, otherwise say goodbye to the alpha channel (aka transparency)
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Join the Unova Pokemon for Smash Discord server: https://discord.gg/HNht2XM :)
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