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User Info: Donut007

Donut007
1 month ago#1
Hey.

So, like, Byleth's inclusion really upset me. Might have been the worst inclusion for me that I can think of for both Smash 4 and Ultimate in terms of general feelings, honestly. The guttural disbelief I felt when I realized what I was looking at, the thinking this was a joke, the thinking I was being duped out, the realization I wasn't, all of it felt like Corrin or Piranha Plant (both reveals which I did not care for, to say the least) but to a more extreme. It felt like experiencing deja vu and that was the worst part.

I know a s*** ton of people are upset and disappointed and I'm not writing much original here. However, I'm gonna try to address the main thing that has bugged me about the inclusion: The divide. It feels not just divisive, but purposefully so. Sakurai and his team aren't stupid. They had to have known the reaction to Byleth, or at least, a large part of one. He made note of it in his Corrin interview and that was one a half FE character ago. The trailer itself is tongue and cheek in regards to swordfighters and the like. And him being the final character in the Fighter's Pass, when most everyone who would've gotten it already had made their purchase wouldn't make their decision based on Byleth seems really suspicious to me. Which makes me feel, just, all sorts of off. Even with Hero, they tried to amend it to the Western audience with Banjo, as if being careful with it all. But with Byleth, it just seems like they don't care.

And that's a common statement I see. Sakurai doesn't care what we think and he shouldn't. That general line of thought. And if that's the case, then alright. He's a director that doesn't care, I guess. It's an odd thing to want to applaud, I think, but have at it.

And just the general thing I keep hearing from him on this being a celebration of gaming and all. I don't understand how Byleth fits alongside everyone else on the Pass. It just feels... off. And I hear people say "Well, Three Houses is the best-selling FE game so it deserves it." But how many times can we use that excuse? Awakening was the best-selling, so it got three characters. Then Fates was the best-selling, so it got Corrin. Now Three Houses was the best-selling, so we got Byleth. But what about other franchises? Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was the best-selling Xenoblade game, so it got a Mii costume and that sold better, iirc, than both Awakening and Fates (not combined, just generally speaking) but that doesn't matter. Three Houses was the best-selling FE game, but there are a lot of games and franchises that sold better and are selling better, but they're not being gifted a character with each release past a threshold. Hell, we don't even get a Pokemon character per Generation like how we got FE characters at this point with one for each new game.

But sales don't matter, right? Sakurai just loves Fire Emblem and Three Houses is great and all of that good stuff, so sales don't matter. Then why does everyone go to it whenever explaining why Three Houses deserved a character. Why is that the jump made, almost immediately? Do they matter? Do they not? And if they don't, are you saying that Sakurai bias does exist? And if not, what is the reason chosen over other first-party Nintendo games. Why was Corrin the only first-party DLC newcomer last game. Why is Byleth the only one you actually had to fully pay for this game? What about other franchises? I remember when people would say Spring Man and Rex and Elma and Inkling and all those characters were locks in Smash 4 and Ultimate because of "shilling" or whatever. But it seems like this tie-in mindset only ever really happens with Fire Emblem. Why? Is it Nintendo bias? Do they not care to try to sell or push other games such as Astral Chain? Daemon x Machina? None of them?

I guess, in the end, I just really don't understand. I am not even really making a point with all this. I'm just venting my thoughts. This is probably the last time I'll outwardly make thoughts like this on Byleth so I wanted to get it all out. It upsets me, largely cause it confuses me. What is the motive? Is there one? Is it really just "whatever the f*** Sakurai wants"? Is that a good thing? Is it only a good thing when one is personally appeased by said decision? Can it be a bad thing? I don't know. I'll tryto stop caring now. I just don't understand the decision. It feels tonedeaf. It still hasn't even fully registered for me. We actually got Three Houses DLC in a Fighter's Pass where everyone assumed it would just be third-party, just like Smash 4 DLC all over again, every newcomer is third-party (+ Fire Emblem, for some reason). I joked about the possibility, and here I am, looking right at it. Whatever, I guess.
*doodle, doodle*

User Info: Garp_fist

Garp_fist
1 month ago#2
There’s a Fire Emblem bias and they’re being very blatant with it. I don’t know how anyone can deny it at this point.
People that want Viewtiful Joe 3: 154! Fund it Capcom!
Smash Ultimate mains: Banjo & Kazooie, Inkling, K. Rool, Hero, King Dedede, Isabelle

User Info: Greator

Greator
1 month ago#3
I share some same thoughts. I'm not angry at all but I'd really like to know the thought process behind Byleth's inclusion. Why were they the only 1st party character, why exactly do we get 8th FE character and why leave them last when you've already seen the reaction once with Corrin?
I actually meant it
Most wanted: Phoenix Wright

User Info: Donut007

Donut007
1 month ago#4
Oh, and before I move on as this is another point of contention that I've seen a lot: for those fans happy about Byleth who respond to backlash with "just because it's not what you wanted, doesn't make it not good, grow up and be appreciative" and all that other stuff; how far does that go? Think of your least favorite character from a good-selling game. Whether it be Steve, Jonesy (Fortnite), any Call of Duty character, Rabbids, whatever; would you be appreciative and not make dissenting comments to those choices? Would you simply be happy for its fans and be happy Sakurai gave us another character even if it wasn't what you wanted? Would that be the reasonable, instinctual reaction you'd have?
*doodle, doodle*

User Info: Arcasaurus

Arcasaurus
1 month ago#5
Donut007 posted...
But sales don't matter, right? Sakurai just loves Fire Emblem and Three Houses is great and all of that good stuff, so sales don't matter.
This is correct. The only people that ever bring up sales are the fans, whether they're trying to hype up whatever character they want that's not in yet, or if they're trying to hate on characters that do get in. Sakurai, Nintendo, or any other person related to development has never brought this up as a criteria.
Is it really just "whatever the f*** Sakurai wants"? Is that a good thing?
I think this can be a good thing. If Sakurai or the other devs are particularly passionate about a character, then I can expect them to do a better job compared to the norm. Just listen to how dorky Sakurai sounds as he gushes about Byleth in the introduction, right down to citing what the original mythical references are for his weapons and all that.
I don't think Sakurai has to like the characters he works on, but I feel that the ones he does care about would end up having more effort put into them, whether consciously or subconsciously. Or at least, it'd turn out better than someone he seems reluctant to work on, despite the character being highly requested.

User Info: demon_cleaner

demon_cleaner
1 month ago#6
I think that they think that Fire Emblem fans are cows to be milked who'll buy anything and everyting with Fire Emblem in it, as Heroes showed + they want to make more Fire Emblem fans so they have more cows to milk.
They're disgusting.

User Info: Garp_fist

Garp_fist
1 month ago#7
Donut007 posted...
Oh, and before I move on as this is another point of contention that I've seen a lot: for those fans happy about Byleth who respond to backlash with "just because it's not what you wanted, doesn't make it not good, grow up and be appreciative" and all that other stuff; how far does that go? Think of your least favorite character from a good-selling game. Whether it be Steve, Jonesy (Fortnite), any Call of Duty character, Rabbids, whatever; would you be appreciative and not make dissenting comments to those choices? Would you simply be happy for its fans and be happy Sakurai gave us another character even if it wasn't what you wanted? Would that be the reasonable, instinctual reaction you'd have?
Actually yes. I’d hate Tracer, but ultimately respect that she has fans and they’d be happy.

That said I also understand where the anger and disappointment is coming from here, 100%, and many people are being a******s about it.
People that want Viewtiful Joe 3: 154! Fund it Capcom!
Smash Ultimate mains: Banjo & Kazooie, Inkling, K. Rool, Hero, King Dedede, Isabelle

User Info: Kondorito

Kondorito
1 month ago#8
Greator posted...
I share some same thoughts. I'm not angry at all but I'd really like to know the thought process behind Byleth's inclusion. Why were they the only 1st party character, why exactly do we get 8th FE character and why leave them last when you've already seen the reaction once with Corrin?

This.

User Info: Donut007

Donut007
1 month ago#9
Garp_fist posted...
Actually yes. I’d hate Tracer, but ultimately respect that she has fans and they’d be happy.
That's fair. I suppose it's just my usual thought when I see certain people I know be happy about Byleth and call the complaints or upset remarks as "childish" and "pathetic" and "ungrateful", but if you ask them about their least wanteds (usually among those I listed), they'd have extremely harsh words prepared to usher out how much that would be a stupid decision and that timeline is cursed and yadda, yadda. And I can't help but feel that goes against the very idea they talk about in regards to dissenting opinions in regards to Smash.
*doodle, doodle*

User Info: Arcasaurus

Arcasaurus
1 month ago#10
Donut007 posted...
Oh, and before I move on as this is another point of contention that I've seen a lot: for those fans happy about Byleth who respond to backlash with "just because it's not what you wanted, doesn't make it not good, grow up and be appreciative" and all that other stuff; how far does that go? Think of your least favorite character from a good-selling game. Whether it be Steve, Jonesy (Fortnite), any Call of Duty character, Rabbids, whatever; would you be appreciative and not make dissenting comments to those choices? Would you simply be happy for its fans and be happy Sakurai gave us another character even if it wasn't what you wanted? Would that be the reasonable, instinctual reaction you'd have?
Tell me who is saying that others that they should be appreciative for Byleth, if they don't like Byleth. Being mad about Byleth is one thing, but to act like including Byleth alone completely ruins the Fighters Pass despite 4 other characters being there, or somehow tarnishes the 6 future DLC characters or the current gigantic roster is the (over)reaction that's been posted more, and it's simply ridiculous that adding one character like that is what causes people to say stuff like "Sakurai needs to be replaced", as if it undoes all the other good ideas he's had. I would potentially hate some characters, yeah, but I wouldn't retroactively think that the rest of the DLC or roster is ruined forever because of them (barring the character being broken and ruining game balance, but that's a separate issue from a simple character choice).
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