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  3. Don't gut Joker, just tone down Arsene a bit

User Info: Phoniex_Wright

Phoniex_Wright
2 years ago#11
And again, it’s the player who won, not the character.

Did he have more players use him? Were more Jokers winning?

No.

I bet Heri will cause that uproar, unless you’re gonna say that he can’t since he’s mid to low tier and that his RNG is somehow fine...when yet, it’s not.

User Info: WiiFitTrainer_

WiiFitTrainer_
2 years ago#12
Phoniex_Wright posted...
If Arsene was nerfed, how would he kill?

He’s fine. If you wanna complain about a really OP character, pick on Hero.

Where’s the outcry for Hero now?


As we saw in the set, FSmash reads and dragdown USmashes/DSmashes.

Hero's a degenerate character, but we haven't seen him dominate in bracket yet so we can't pull the trigger too early

Your niche opinion is irrelevant and won't affect the sales of the series you hate. People will buy games from it and it'll thrive whether you like it or not.

User Info: kollie89

kollie89
2 years ago#13
WiiFitTrainer_ posted...
kollie89 posted...
Then you’re fine with s*** adjustments. I promise you nothing with change nerfing arsene, base joker is what leo is killing it with and he’s stated this before. He’s literally telling you what makes joker good and you don’t want to adjust that. Adjusting a weaker aspect of his kit is the definition of pointless
And here's the armchair pro salt

If you think someone who mains a character for a living will tell you how to fairly nerf them, you're being naive

Arsene? A weaker part of his kit? That is his main source of kills. Arsene Dair into USmash is true, untechable and kills early af. Bair covers a TON of ledge getup options.

And none of this matters when you watch the actual matches and see how many kills he gets in base joker. He does not need Arsene to edge guard with back air like a god.

Arsene is not the main source of Leo’s kills with the character and you are blind if you think otherwise

And you realize I said Leo was for arsene nerfs right? He’s literally agreeing with this topic lol, he knows he does more damage with base jokers absurd combo game to the point he said he’d be fine with arsene nerfs. So by your own logic leo is admitting arsene is not the optimal way to nerf the character, which is why he said he’d be fine with it

User Info: ShadowRaiden00

ShadowRaiden00
2 years ago#14
I mean Tweek was about to sweep him.

And then he cracked, I can't really say hes broken when he nearly lost.

User Info: Camc10

Camc10
2 years ago#15
Phoniex_Wright posted...
And again, it’s the player who won, not the character.

Did he have more players use him? Were more Jokers winning?

No.

I bet Heri will cause that uproar, unless you’re gonna say that he can’t since he’s mid to low tier and that his RNG is somehow fine...when yet, it’s not.

Its more that Hero's RNG is the only thing that makes him good, while base Joker is already good, imo.

User Info: WiiFitTrainer_

WiiFitTrainer_
2 years ago#16
Phoniex_Wright posted...
And again, it’s the player who won, not the character.

Did he have more players use him? Were more Jokers winning?

No.

I bet Heri will cause that uproar, unless you’re gonna say that he can’t since he’s mid to low tier and that his RNG is somehow fine...when yet, it’s not.


At S4's first EVO, did everyone use Sheik/Diddy, despite them being the best in that patch? No.

But if those 2 weren't nerfed/changed, everyone would've started using them. The nerfs deterred people from overusing them. Bayo's a good example of a character that was underused at first, but then killed the metagame because the character got no changes.

Obviously Joker isn't as bad as Bayo, but we'll be seeing way more Jokers in top 8 if he gets no changes after this huge EVO win.
Your niche opinion is irrelevant and won't affect the sales of the series you hate. People will buy games from it and it'll thrive whether you like it or not.

User Info: Iced_Shadows

Iced_Shadows
2 years ago#17
You’re asking to nerf a character who doesn’t need it at all. MKLeo is the only one getting results with him, and he isn’t dominating online, so what’s the problem? I see zero evidence he actually needs to be touched at all.

Remember, it a character has exploits that give them an advantage over the rest of the cast, that character is going to be practically all you see at tournaments. People are there to win, not fight fairly. But how many Jokers were there again? 🤔 You can say Joker has X strength all you want, but until I see it proven, I’m going to assume you’re just plain wrong.
Shadow Temple...
Here is gathered Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred... - Shadow Temple Walls

User Info: Phoniex_Wright

Phoniex_Wright
2 years ago#18
WiiFitTrainer_ posted...
Phoniex_Wright posted...
And again, it’s the player who won, not the character.

Did he have more players use him? Were more Jokers winning?

No.

I bet Heri will cause that uproar, unless you’re gonna say that he can’t since he’s mid to low tier and that his RNG is somehow fine...when yet, it’s not.


At S4's first EVO, did everyone use Sheik/Diddy, despite them being the best in that patch? No.

But if those 2 weren't nerfed/changed, everyone would've started using them. The nerfs deterred people from overusing them. Bayo's a good example of a character that was underused at first, but then killed the metagame because the character got no changes.

Obviously Joker isn't as bad as Bayo, but we'll be seeing way more Jokers in top 8 if he gets no changes after this huge EVO win.

That could literally be said of Fox, Pikachu, Pichu, Wolf, Lucina, etc...

User Info: kollie89

kollie89
2 years ago#19
WiiFitTrainer_ posted...
we'll be seeing way more Jokers in top 8

People have been parroting this for months and it still hasn’t happened, the pros are taking their sweet time that’s for sure.

User Info: Phoniex_Wright

Phoniex_Wright
2 years ago#20
kollie89 posted...
WiiFitTrainer_ posted...
we'll be seeing way more Jokers in top 8

People have been parroting this for months and it still hasn’t happened, the pros are taking their sweet time that’s for sure.

This so much.
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