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  3. Chrom didn't last long...

User Info: Eclectic_Stache

Eclectic_Stache
2 months ago#21
PacificFun posted...
Eclectic_Stache posted...
PacificFun posted...
Wynvkius posted...
PacificFun posted...
Then people will realize Peach & Daisy are far from top tier any time soon.

I’m not actually so sure about this. Even during Chrom mania we were all aware of how easily exploitable his weaknesses were. It’s not so apparent with Peach. She has amazing movement options, the best projectile, incredible recovery and as a result a threatening off stage presence, insanely high damage combo potential, reliable kill moves and a very high skill floor and ceiling. I wouldn’t be so quick to write her off.

They're going to nerf Peach & Daisy no matter what. They're going to lose their "mojo". And due to how technical they are, they're going to be knocked to mid b tier probably.

And Peach & Daisy's float can backfire a LOT. It leaves them incredibly vulnerable to heavy blows. And Peach Parasol was nerfed like crazy from Smash4 as it barely can KO now. And of course, if you're not facing the stage when recovering.....

I honestly think Peach has a big issue in securing a kill.

Yes, I agree.

The game has only been out for a month lol.

Yeah she's always been like this in every Smash game (where she sucks at killing.), and honestly, Ultimate Peach really isn't THAT different from Smash 4 Peach if you think about it.
My moustache is more perfect than Dedede's, it's more elegant than Luigi's, and it's more eclectic than Wario's.

User Info: Eclectic_Stache

Eclectic_Stache
2 months ago#22
Guess Chrom's training didn't "pay off" after-all
My moustache is more perfect than Dedede's, it's more elegant than Luigi's, and it's more eclectic than Wario's.

User Info: Wynvkius

Wynvkius
2 months ago#23
Eclectic_Stache posted...
Wynvkius posted...
He’s still got an amazing neutral, powerful combos and kill confirms for days.
Chrom with momentum and stage control is still one of the best characters in the game. Only problem is he has a really hard time getting it back once he’s lost it. Like a really hard time.

His frame data and active frames is the same as Roy's, and Roy has lterally the same frame data as Smash 4 Roy...and the small buffs to his frame data are meaningless, when frame data buffs are a universal change in Ultimate compared to Smash 4.

As for neutral game, I just don't see what's so good about it, his neutral is literally the same as Roy's, and Roy's neutral is f***ing ass. (okay maybe Chrom's a little better due to not worrying about the dumb base sweetspot, and being more powerful with the entire moveset rather than a specific non-optimal part.)

The universal landing lag buffs aren’t meaningless just because they’re universal. They affect different characters differently. Specifically it’s more beneficial to characters with disjointed aerial hit boxes that are now incredibly safe on shield when spaced properly than it is for someone who needs to get close enough to get hit to do damage. Chrom having good frame data is more relevant to him than on Roy because Chrom doesn’t have a sour spot on his sword and as a result can space from the tip of his sword for full damage giving a better utilization of his range. Chrom’s neutral is way better because of this. Roy’s neutral is ass because he has to be in your face to do effective damage. Chrom doesn’t care. This is significant since Chrom can still reliably kill you at 60% even without a sweet spot while also keeping his opponents at arms length. Damage on shield also affects shield stun so Chrom’s attacks doing full damage at range means his hits are safer on shield at max range than Roy’s are because his attacks are weak at the tip giving him much safer neutral options. They may have the same hit box sizes and frame data but the difference in their hit box properties makes an enormous impact on their potential effectiveness.

User Info: Eclectic_Stache

Eclectic_Stache
2 months ago#24
Wynvkius posted...
Eclectic_Stache posted...
Wynvkius posted...
He’s still got an amazing neutral, powerful combos and kill confirms for days.
Chrom with momentum and stage control is still one of the best characters in the game. Only problem is he has a really hard time getting it back once he’s lost it. Like a really hard time.

His frame data and active frames is the same as Roy's, and Roy has lterally the same frame data as Smash 4 Roy...and the small buffs to his frame data are meaningless, when frame data buffs are a universal change in Ultimate compared to Smash 4.

As for neutral game, I just don't see what's so good about it, his neutral is literally the same as Roy's, and Roy's neutral is f***ing ass. (okay maybe Chrom's a little better due to not worrying about the dumb base sweetspot, and being more powerful with the entire moveset rather than a specific non-optimal part.)

The universal landing lag buffs aren’t meaningless just because they’re universal. They affect different characters differently. Specifically it’s more beneficial to characters with disjointed aerial hit boxes that are now incredibly safe on shield when spaced properly than it is for someone who needs to get close enough to get hit to do damage. Chrom having good frame data is more relevant to him than on Roy because Chrom doesn’t have a sour spot on his sword and as a result can space from the tip of his sword for full damage giving a better utilization of his range. Chrom’s neutral is way better because of this. Roy’s neutral is ass because he has to be in your face to do effective damage. Chrom doesn’t care. This is significant since Chrom can still reliably kill you at 60% even without a sweet spot while also keeping his opponents at arms length. Damage on shield also affects shield stun so Chrom’s attacks doing full damage at range means his hits are safer on shield at max range than Roy’s are because his attacks are weak at the tip giving him much safer neutral options. They may have the same hit box sizes and frame data but the difference in their hit box properties makes an enormous impact on their potential effectiveness.

To be fair, Chrom's hitboxes are a bit different, his tilts seem to hit below ledges unlike Roy, and his F-Smash hits platforms above him sort of like Melee Marth, which isn't like Roy.

But I don't think it's enough.

However you have to remember, that many people are also calling Roy "top tier" and saying "Roy has a good neutral game."
My moustache is more perfect than Dedede's, it's more elegant than Luigi's, and it's more eclectic than Wario's.

User Info: Wynvkius

Wynvkius
2 months ago#25
Eclectic_Stache posted...
PacificFun posted...
Wynvkius posted...
PacificFun posted...
Then people will realize Peach & Daisy are far from top tier any time soon.

I’m not actually so sure about this. Even during Chrom mania we were all aware of how easily exploitable his weaknesses were. It’s not so apparent with Peach. She has amazing movement options, the best projectile, incredible recovery and as a result a threatening off stage presence, insanely high damage combo potential, reliable kill moves and a very high skill floor and ceiling. I wouldn’t be so quick to write her off.

They're going to nerf Peach & Daisy no matter what. They're going to lose their "mojo". And due to how technical they are, they're going to be knocked to mid b tier probably.

And Peach & Daisy's float can backfire a LOT. It leaves them incredibly vulnerable to heavy blows. And Peach Parasol was nerfed like crazy from Smash4 as it barely can KO now. And of course, if you're not facing the stage when recovering.....

I honestly think Peach has a big issue in securing a kill.

Throwing turnip kill confirms into FAir from 80+ percent at the ledge. DTilt also combos into FAir at kill percents. Dash attack, BAir, NAir, back throw, SideB, USmash and FSmash are all very reliable kill options as well. She can also gimp with floated aerials and Turnips as well as stunt recoveries that have hitboxes with Toad. Peach can kill. Parasol was never her best kill option and was only ever situational.

User Info: PacificFun

PacificFun
2 months ago#26
Wynvkius posted...
Eclectic_Stache posted...
PacificFun posted...
Wynvkius posted...
PacificFun posted...
Then people will realize Peach & Daisy are far from top tier any time soon.

I’m not actually so sure about this. Even during Chrom mania we were all aware of how easily exploitable his weaknesses were. It’s not so apparent with Peach. She has amazing movement options, the best projectile, incredible recovery and as a result a threatening off stage presence, insanely high damage combo potential, reliable kill moves and a very high skill floor and ceiling. I wouldn’t be so quick to write her off.

They're going to nerf Peach & Daisy no matter what. They're going to lose their "mojo". And due to how technical they are, they're going to be knocked to mid b tier probably.

And Peach & Daisy's float can backfire a LOT. It leaves them incredibly vulnerable to heavy blows. And Peach Parasol was nerfed like crazy from Smash4 as it barely can KO now. And of course, if you're not facing the stage when recovering.....

I honestly think Peach has a big issue in securing a kill.

Throwing turnip kill confirms into FAir from 80+ percent at the ledge. DTilt also combos into FAir at kill percents. Dash attack, BAir, NAir, back throw, SideB, USmash and FSmash are all very reliable kill options as well. She can also gimp with floated aerials and Turnips as well as stunt recoveries that have hitboxes with Toad. Peach can kill. Parasol was never her best kill option and was only ever situational.

Regardless, they're getting nerfed because people won't shut the f*** up. Lol
A bit of a pessimist...but I can be reasonable at times.

User Info: FinalFantasyVII

FinalFantasyVII
2 months ago#27
Chrom is a bottom tier joke like Lil Mac used to be

User Info: Joozhuah

Joozhuah
2 months ago#28
Wynvkius posted...
He’s still got an amazing neutral, powerful combos and kill confirms for days.
Chrom with momentum and stage control is still one of the best characters in the game. Only problem is he has a really hard time getting it back once he’s lost it. Like a really hard time.
Rest In Peace, Bandana Dee for Smash Ultimate.
You will never be forgotten

User Info: Perkolator

Perkolator
2 months ago#29
Chrom is a frankenstein echo fighter of a semi-clone of Marth who used to be a full clone. I don't know why anyone thought he was going to be good.

User Info: ReinhardtPence

ReinhardtPence
2 months ago#30
FinalFantasyVII posted...
Chrom is a bottom tier joke like Lil Mac used to be


Little Mac is still a joke
LIGHTNING IS POWER!
Sword Reinhardt True Solo count: 9
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