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  3. Just to address a complaint I've seen with TS4's ending (spoilers)

User Info: desuno-to

desuno-to
4 weeks ago#11
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/227-movies-at-the-theater/77810935
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User Info: BanjoBoomer

BanjoBoomer
3 weeks ago#12
ObsidianTurncoat posted...
It kinda felt OOC and then on top of it, it made 3's ending even more emotionally manipulative since the significance of Woody making the sacrifice to stay with the group at the expense of having a happily ever after with Andy is just thrown out the window because Bonnie just didn't give a f***. So they just give him the happily ever after with Bo Peep instead. Feels like a whole lotta wheel spinning.


Staying with Andy wouldn't have been a happily ever after. You think Andy would play with Woody in college?

The point of 3 was Woody learning to move past Andy. And the point of 4 was Woody learning that he didn't need to replace Andy with a new kid, he had the whole world opened up to him.

He had no obligation to rot away in a closet just to be with Andy or Bonnie when neither had any use for him.

User Info: Turtlemayor333

Turtlemayor333
3 weeks ago#13
BanjoBoomer posted...
ObsidianTurncoat posted...
It kinda felt OOC and then on top of it, it made 3's ending even more emotionally manipulative since the significance of Woody making the sacrifice to stay with the group at the expense of having a happily ever after with Andy is just thrown out the window because Bonnie just didn't give a f***. So they just give him the happily ever after with Bo Peep instead. Feels like a whole lotta wheel spinning.


Staying with Andy wouldn't have been a happily ever after. You think Andy would play with Woody in college?

The point of 3 was Woody learning to move past Andy. And the point of 4 was Woody learning that he didn't need to replace Andy with a new kid, he had the whole world opened up to him.

He had no obligation to rot away in a closet just to be with Andy or Bonnie when neither had any use for him.

This is what I'm talking about, all of this sounds okay on paper but the message gets jumbled up and contradicted. By the end of 4 Woody goes independent because being with a kid means you'll eventually end up trashed or in a closet, yet at the same time he's helping Gabby and the carnival toys to go on that path. The movie wants to have it both ways. It's not like these are new ideas. This is essentially the same conflict from Toy Story 2 where Woody already decided that Prospector was wrong.

The ending is nice if you think about it as giving Woody a break but it doesn't feel right to end his story with this.
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User Info: Shadow_Cloud

Shadow_Cloud
3 weeks ago#14
So in a way, Woody is Captain America?

User Info: Eab1990

Eab1990
3 weeks ago#15
Turtlemayor333 posted...
BanjoBoomer posted...
ObsidianTurncoat posted...
It kinda felt OOC and then on top of it, it made 3's ending even more emotionally manipulative since the significance of Woody making the sacrifice to stay with the group at the expense of having a happily ever after with Andy is just thrown out the window because Bonnie just didn't give a f***. So they just give him the happily ever after with Bo Peep instead. Feels like a whole lotta wheel spinning.


Staying with Andy wouldn't have been a happily ever after. You think Andy would play with Woody in college?

The point of 3 was Woody learning to move past Andy. And the point of 4 was Woody learning that he didn't need to replace Andy with a new kid, he had the whole world opened up to him.

He had no obligation to rot away in a closet just to be with Andy or Bonnie when neither had any use for him.

This is what I'm talking about, all of this sounds okay on paper but the message gets jumbled up and contradicted. By the end of 4 Woody goes independent because being with a kid means you'll eventually end up trashed or in a closet, yet at the same time he's helping Gabby and the carnival toys to go on that path. The movie wants to have it both ways. It's not like these are new ideas. This is essentially the same conflict from Toy Story 2 where Woody already decided that Prospector was wrong.

The ending is nice if you think about it as giving Woody a break but it doesn't feel right to end his story with this.


I don't really feel like any of this is Woody's, or any toy's fault.

Bonnie's character was essentially ruined for the sake of realism. It still works, but the sour feelings people have about the ending can be traced back to Bonnie being like any other kid, instead of the kid at the end of 3 that we expected would treasure Woody like any other toy.

I think the message still works because the toys are never one to think long-term. What they see as valuable is giving kids happy memories, even if they're destined to be lost or forgotten afterwards. It's less of a happy ending and more of a "toys are best when they're able to do what they do best by making kids happy" open-ended conclusion.
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User Info: BanjoBoomer

BanjoBoomer
3 weeks ago#16
Turtlemayor333 posted...
BanjoBoomer posted...
ObsidianTurncoat posted...
It kinda felt OOC and then on top of it, it made 3's ending even more emotionally manipulative since the significance of Woody making the sacrifice to stay with the group at the expense of having a happily ever after with Andy is just thrown out the window because Bonnie just didn't give a f***. So they just give him the happily ever after with Bo Peep instead. Feels like a whole lotta wheel spinning.


Staying with Andy wouldn't have been a happily ever after. You think Andy would play with Woody in college?

The point of 3 was Woody learning to move past Andy. And the point of 4 was Woody learning that he didn't need to replace Andy with a new kid, he had the whole world opened up to him.

He had no obligation to rot away in a closet just to be with Andy or Bonnie when neither had any use for him.

This is what I'm talking about, all of this sounds okay on paper but the message gets jumbled up and contradicted. By the end of 4 Woody goes independent because being with a kid means you'll eventually end up trashed or in a closet, yet at the same time he's helping Gabby and the carnival toys to go on that path. The movie wants to have it both ways. It's not like these are new ideas. This is essentially the same conflict from Toy Story 2 where Woody already decided that Prospector was wrong.

The ending is nice if you think about it as giving Woody a break but it doesn't feel right to end his story with this.


You're thinking in absolutes.

It's perfectly okay for a toy to be with a kid.

It's also perfectly okay for a toy to get "lost" and live for themselves.

It's not perfectly okay for a toy to sit behind glass for all eternity, because that would be a boring and unfulfilling life.

It's not perfectly okay to sit in a closet for all eternity waiting for a kid who isn't interested in you to play with you because that's also a boring and unfulfilling life.

It adds more nuance and complexity to the situation, it doesn't contradict the original message.

User Info: Higurashi_Akane

Higurashi_Akane
3 weeks ago#17
BanjoBoomer posted...
ObsidianTurncoat posted...
It kinda felt OOC and then on top of it, it made 3's ending even more emotionally manipulative since the significance of Woody making the sacrifice to stay with the group at the expense of having a happily ever after with Andy is just thrown out the window because Bonnie just didn't give a f***. So they just give him the happily ever after with Bo Peep instead. Feels like a whole lotta wheel spinning.


Staying with Andy wouldn't have been a happily ever after. You think Andy would play with Woody in college?

The point of 3 was Woody learning to move past Andy. And the point of 4 was Woody learning that he didn't need to replace Andy with a new kid, he had the whole world opened up to him.

He had no obligation to rot away in a closet just to be with Andy or Bonnie when neither had any use for him.

Why didn't they just do 4's ending in 3?
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User Info: BanjoBoomer

BanjoBoomer
3 weeks ago#18
Higurashi_Akane posted...
BanjoBoomer posted...
ObsidianTurncoat posted...
It kinda felt OOC and then on top of it, it made 3's ending even more emotionally manipulative since the significance of Woody making the sacrifice to stay with the group at the expense of having a happily ever after with Andy is just thrown out the window because Bonnie just didn't give a f***. So they just give him the happily ever after with Bo Peep instead. Feels like a whole lotta wheel spinning.


Staying with Andy wouldn't have been a happily ever after. You think Andy would play with Woody in college?

The point of 3 was Woody learning to move past Andy. And the point of 4 was Woody learning that he didn't need to replace Andy with a new kid, he had the whole world opened up to him.

He had no obligation to rot away in a closet just to be with Andy or Bonnie when neither had any use for him.

Why didn't they just do 4's ending in 3?


Because then we couldn't have gotten a heartfelt goodbye between Andy and Woody.

Plus Woody wasn't ready to make that change yet. He'd always lived with a kid that loved him more than any other toy. Toy Story 4 brought him to his lowest point and made him question his convictions.

If you think about it, it's an inversion of the Toy Story 2 dilemma. In Toy Story 2, he was presented with a life where he would never be played with, but his convictions made him reject that choice and go back to Andy. But now those same convictions are trapping him in a life where he never gets played with, forcing him to rethink his whole outlook on life.
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  3. Just to address a complaint I've seen with TS4's ending (spoilers)
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