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  3. [10.11] MHWI Switch Axe Raw/Elemental Meta Builds Guide

User Info: GaraGara-go-

GaraGara-go-
4 weeks ago#1
Meta Sets for Switch Axe as of [10.11] here:
https://imgur.com/a/Ai8wIwh

User Info: Deaga

Deaga
4 weeks ago#2
Oh you're here too! This is top notch stuff, I seriously recommend it.

Just make sure to read the small disclaimer at the start, ie "Hey these are for speedruns but they're the backbone of more regular sets too, you can swap out a bit of stuff for QoL stuff." Don't take this (or any guide you see online, really) as God's own words of how to play. Take is a basis to make your own stuff. The sets in there are fully optimized assuming all decos, you may not have all of them. I don't either, that's fine. We can scale down the damage a bit and use slightly less optimal stuff and that's fine. But it's pretty cool, in my opinion, to also know what may be possible with complete optimization. And that's what this album is all about!
Shameless self-plug for my MH speedrunning youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeASDFga

User Info: nuke2099

nuke2099
4 weeks ago#3
Deaga posted...
Oh you're here too! This is top notch stuff, I seriously recommend it.

Just make sure to read the small disclaimer at the start, ie "Hey these are for speedruns but they're the backbone of more regular sets too, you can swap out a bit of stuff for QoL stuff." Don't take this (or any guide you see online, really) as God's own words of how to play. Take is a basis to make your own stuff. The sets in there are fully optimized assuming all decos, you may not have all of them. I don't either, that's fine. We can scale down the damage a bit and use slightly less optimal stuff and that's fine. But it's pretty cool, in my opinion, to also know what may be possible with complete optimization. And that's what this album is all about!

Because I don't have Challenger +4 I do this anyway. Instead I have been gifted with Challenger/Vitality which I will use so I can have some comfort.

Btw as far as the water options are concerned is Laguna better than Namielles for axe mode play as well?

The previous meta sets just listed the power element options for PEP ZSD spam only (which I don't like) and left out power phial options.

https://imgur.com/a/Zy7q5tM
Gamertag: Nuke2099

User Info: kanon951

kanon951
4 weeks ago#4
Nice info. Thanks.

User Info: Deaga

Deaga
4 weeks ago#5
nuke2099 posted...
Because I don't have Challenger +4 I do this anyway. Instead I have been gifted with Challenger/Vitality which I will use so I can have some comfort.

Btw as far as the water options are concerned is Laguna better than Namielles for axe mode play as well?

The previous meta sets just listed the power element options for PEP ZSD spam only (which I don't like) and left out power phial options.

https://imgur.com/a/Zy7q5tM


Coral Pukei SA is the best elemental phial by a long shot and got even better with the recent patch, as it's rare 10 (so +2 augment slots now) and can take custom upgrades. Nami, on the other hand, is the weakest power phial option. Against the likes of Teostra or Lavasioth, Coral SA is better guaranteed. Although for Lavasioth in particular, maaaybe the Silversol SA is better to make its parts soft easier...

Now, on targets that take a ton of raw damage in addition to a water weakness, such as Anjanath or Tobi-Kadashi, the comparison is a bit iffier. I believe the Coral Pukei SA would mostly compete against the Goldian SA though. Same goes for mons that are water weak but don't take all that much water damage, such as Brute Tigrex (wings take relatively little elemental damage and you'll be focusing those).
Shameless self-plug for my MH speedrunning youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeASDFga

User Info: nuke2099

nuke2099
4 weeks ago#6
Deaga posted...
nuke2099 posted...
Because I don't have Challenger +4 I do this anyway. Instead I have been gifted with Challenger/Vitality which I will use so I can have some comfort.

Btw as far as the water options are concerned is Laguna better than Namielles for axe mode play as well?

The previous meta sets just listed the power element options for PEP ZSD spam only (which I don't like) and left out power phial options.

https://imgur.com/a/Zy7q5tM


Coral Pukei SA is the best elemental phial by a long shot and got even better with the recent patch, as it's rare 10 (so +2 augment slots now) and can take custom upgrades. Nami, on the other hand, is the weakest power phial option. Against the likes of Teostra or Lavasioth, Coral SA is better guaranteed. Although for Lavasioth in particular, maaaybe the Silversol SA is better to make its parts soft easier...

Now, on targets that take a ton of raw damage in addition to a water weakness, such as Anjanath or Tobi-Kadashi, the comparison is a bit iffier. I believe the Coral Pukei SA would mostly compete against the Goldian SA though. Same goes for mons that are water weak but don't take all that much water damage, such as Brute Tigrex (wings take relatively little elemental damage and you'll be focusing those).

Thanks. Shame that. Namielles looks really good.
Gamertag: Nuke2099

User Info: RatchetClankO

RatchetClankO
4 weeks ago#7
So,Rajang SA isn't competitive huh?
Shame,looks good.

Also,why exactly Nami's SA is bad compared to Coral SA?, even outside of ZSD spam?

User Info: Deaga

Deaga
4 weeks ago#8
Rajang SA can kinda tie the top raw options, but you'll be dealing with having a lot less white sharpness, so you have less leeway of missing hits before white runs out... And it doesn't really have any real advantages over them. It's not terrible or even bad, but there's not much reason to use it instead of GoldIan SA or RuiNerg SA in terms of damage. Of course, if you just love the way it looks or whatever, go for it. As I said, it's not bad at all.

Coral SA just has really godly stats. It probably pulls ahead on stuff that takes a lot of water damage and has somewhat low raw hitzones (ie what you'd want to use element against). Against monsters with higher HZV, it may be better to just use Goldian SA instead as a raw option, as it has stronger raw. Nami's SA has very little water, to it's possible that Goldian's poison may be more free damage than that water. Of course, I could be wrong, I didn't look much into Nami SA.

EDIT - I decided to run the numbers just to check this.
I used the sets for Namielle, Coral Pukei and Goldian SAs shown here. These are the best I can craft atm, your mileage my vary if you have better decorations:
https://imgur.com/a/HEbsfc8

And I calculated the total damage from one Triangle Swing in Amped Sword Mode (30 MV) + the amped burst hit from that (9 MV, only 0.35x Elemental damage). This gives me a total MV of 39 and a total elemental modifier of 1.35. There are some issues with rounding when doing the calculation like this, but that's likely only up to +/- 1 damage. Oh, and I'm assuming you have Powercharm and Talon up, the hitzone is wounded (I'll list the base HZV in this post, but calculations consider the wounded HZV, WHZV = HZV + (100-HZV)/4 ), all situational skills are active and Mega Demondrug, Demonpowder and Might seed are all up.

On a hypothetical 70 Raw/30 Water Hitzone, which is more or less what I estimate ebony Odogaron's head to be (ie similar values to Odogaron's head, but taking water damage rather than Ice), each SA hits for the following amount of total damage (Raw+Elemental, adding up the two hits):

Coral Pukei SA: 239 at Purple sharpness, 224 at White.
Goldian SA: 234 at white
Namielle SA: 238 at white

So, huh, in this case I guess they're all pretty much the same. Nami deals 4 extra damage compared to Goldian, but is missing the poison, which should make them about even. Coral Pukei SA barely outdamages them at purple, but loses (!) to both at white and has to deal with Protective Polish for sharpness upkeep. On the other hand, Elemental Phials charge up amped state too, so it should have the bursts up more often, increasing damage. But it's pretty hard to estimate how impactful that is.

However, as the Raw/Elemental ration on the hitzone decreases, Coral pulls ahead of the other two. Take Teostra's head for example, which is a 55 Raw/30 Water hitzone. In this case, the total damage from each SA is as follows:

Coral Pukei SA: 215 at Purple sharpness, 201 at White.
Goldian SA: 198 at white
Namielle SA: 203 at white

Coral Pukei SA is now stronger than both other options even at white sharpness, but, once again, dealing with Protective Polish is pretty bad. I think it's definitely worth it in this case, as it has both higher damage and an easier time getting to amped. Goldian and Nami are still pretty much tied.

And, of course, if you make the Raw/HZV ratio higher (ie taking a higher raw hitzone), that favors the power phial options instead. Taking an 80 Raw/30 Water HZV, which is Tobi-Kadashi's tail or Anjanath's nose, we get the following damage totals:

Coral Pukei SA: 253 at Purple sharpness, 237 at White.
Goldian SA: 255 at white
Namielle SA: 258 at white

Coral is slightly weaker at purple now and falls off a bit at white, while once again the two power phial options are pretty much tied. I guess I undersold Nami a bit, it seems to pretty much tie with goldian in the end.
Shameless self-plug for my MH speedrunning youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/DeASDFga

User Info: JD Old No7

JD Old No7
4 weeks ago#9
So do play styles differ between power and elemental phials? Is discharging the best dps on both?
Tennessee Whiskey

User Info: GaraGara-go-

GaraGara-go-
4 weeks ago#10
JD Old No7 posted...
So do play styles differ between power and elemental phials? Is discharging the best dps on both?

Playstyle remains the same for both: Keep your weapon amped and ZSD at any possible opportunities for most matchup.

Ackchually, regarding Deaga's comparision of the SA, since we're theory crafting with alot of assumption, let's have another look.

Consider the scenario where Nami SA was the best in Deaga spreadsheet, which was 55/30. In this instance the Nami SA does about 2.45% more damage comparing to Goldian. Let's assume this ratio is constant for all other moves. (Lots of assumption here, but what can we do really. Who knows what exactly can happen during a run).

For assumption sake we're going to assume the HP of a MR Teostra is 20,000. IIRC Teo is 2* against poison. Which means two proc of poison yield

320x2=640 damage in total.

This effectively means the goldian with poison does
640÷20000×100= 3.2% more damage

3.2%>2.45% in this rough calculation.

If you push the total HP up further, say 25,000
640:25000x100= 2.56% still more damage than what the Nami SA offer.

The Nami SA starts performing better around the 26,500 HP mark.

This is, of course, assuming that the poison only proc twice. In reality it should easily proc 3 times, making the Goldian look even better.

Remember: Alot of assumptions here with this rough calculations.

Let's consider Coral Pukei Pukei. Disregard sharpness issue, it's super tough to theorycraft if you consider that in. In all of these circumstances you must consider the fact that it charges phials up twice as fast comparing to the other two. In SA terms, this means more sword up times which means alot more damage and also crucially: ZSD opportunities which are the bread winner.

Disregarding the new clutch-charge move for now. (Pukei still charges twice as fast with this move btw, but let's not complicate the matter).

The Coral takes 2 Circle + 2 Circle to fully amp.

The other two takes 1 Triangle + 2 Circle + 2 Circle+ 1 Triangle + 2 Circle to fully amp.

That is a crazy difference. You could barely charge your sword with the monster knocked to the ground using Power Phials! Assuming a ballpark figure of about 50 damage coming from amped mode, everytime Coral is amped and the other two isn't, it does 50 more damage in sword mode and granting you zsd...

Of course, alot of theory crafting here. I could be dead wrong, but in my eye the nami is down the bottom while the coral is firmly at the top.

Typed from my phone so sorry for formatting.
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  3. [10.11] MHWI Switch Axe Raw/Elemental Meta Builds Guide
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