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  3. Mathematically strongest augments?

User Info: HolySage

HolySage
4 days ago#31
SilverHawke27 posted...
Dual Blades and Bow.

Decos and armor skills for affinity unless the weapon is negative.
Charm for element attack +5.
Augments for, usually, +120 or +180 or more on top of that.


Gotcha, well i agree with those, fast-hitting weapons have always been favored by elemental.
Judgment thou must face, Thine own hell.

User Info: SlajifrasH045

SlajifrasH045
4 days ago#32
Im a simple man, i augment affinity on my raw sets and elemental on my elemental sets
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blax34dm posted...
Again, mathematically it makes no sense to say affinity is better in one situation over another without considering other factors.

-10% 0% and 10% affinity are -2.5% 0% and +2.5% damage respectively.

If an elemental increase contributes more than 2.5% damage against a given monster, it is better than 10% aff. If it contributes less, it is worse. Difference between 0 and 10% is the same as 90% and 100%. Starting point irrelevant besides a diminished/voided return near/at the cap.

Crit boost, masters touch, crit element, etc, will modify the percentages, but the comparison is the same regardless. Purely Math. No magic threshold of awesomeness.
The easiest affinity you can build for is 90%. Ideally, you want 100%, so an affinity augment is usually good up to 10% affinity, letting you use exactly the decos you want to max affinity out. At 10%, an affinity upgrade is not a 2.5% increase, but a single level one slot, because that's what you gain being able to drop from crit eye 7 to crit eye 6. Still better than the slot upgrade, but not nearly as good when you don't actually need additional affinity.

If you only consider the fact that it's a 2.5-4% increase, you are working in a vacuum. The comments regarding when affinity is useful are talking context into account.
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: valikkster

valikkster
4 days ago#34
Button_Masher_Z posted...
The easiest affinity you can build for is 90%. Ideally, you want 100%, so an affinity augment is usually good up to 10% affinity, letting you use exactly the decos you want to max affinity out. At 10%, an affinity upgrade is not a 2.5% increase, but a single level one slot, because that's what you gain being able to drop from crit eye 7 to crit eye 6. Still better than the slot upgrade, but not nearly as good when you don't actually need additional affinity.

If you only consider the fact that it's a 2.5-4% increase, you are working in a vacuum. The comments regarding when affinity is useful are talking context into account.


In the context of any single weapon which has a base affinity of 0 or less, affinity is mathematically always the superior option. Even on elemental weapons, TCE outputs more damage on crit with less element than more stacked element and less crit, even for DBs.

Again, mathematically, the literal only times that you won't use affinity augments are when your base affinity is 10% or higher, because you can natural 100% without it.

In any case, about 99% of the available weapons have an optimal augment priority of health > affinity > element > anything else.

If the element augment gave more actual element, or if TCE didn't exist, this might be different. As it stands, ~1.5x on TCE against an extra 120 element, even on DBs, screams affinity over element.

Lol and honestly in hindsight, you can forego 4AB for 4 element to achieve literally the same exact result, and only lose 5% affinity from 4AB instead of 10% from the augment.
(edited 4 days ago)
valikkster posted...
In the context of any single weapon which has a base affinity of 0 or less, affinity is mathematically always the superior option. Even on elemental weapons, TCE outputs more damage on crit with less element than more stacked element and less crit, even for DBs.

Again, mathematically, the literal only times that you won't use affinity augments are when your base affinity is 10% or higher, because you can natural 100% without it.

In any case, about 99% of the available weapons have an optimal augment priority of health > affinity > element > anything else.

If the element augment gave more actual element, or if TCE didn't exist, this might be different. As it stands, ~1.5x on TCE against an extra 120 element, even on DBs, screams affinity over element.

Lol and honestly in hindsight, you can forego 4AB for 4 element to achieve literally the same exact result, and only lose 5% affinity from 4AB instead of 10% from the augment.
Yeah, this. Except that not all weapons are elemental weapons. Attack boost is my last priority, I don't even care about the 5% affinity usually. It's too expensive for what it gives now... that's why I say 90% affinity instead of 95% as easy affinity they you can gain. Though 5% can be easy with a single agitator, but not attack boost.

I don't have an affinity augment on my goldian ls, I have no reason. That set has master's touch, crit eye 7, attack boost 4, agitator 5, crit boost 3, and health boost 3, it varies from 85% to 115% affinity based on rage mode and weakened areas, and gets master's touch even though it doesn't need master's touch. My agitator charm isn't even fully upgraded, meaning I'll be able to slot in something else once it is...
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: king_wallace

king_wallace
4 days ago#36
SilverHawke27 posted...
king_wallace posted...
It’s pretty stupid to tell people to never attack augment.

Affinity is useless past 100%. Attack is never useless.

In general the augments are weak relative to other options, but they are certainly not useless.

Attack is bad because with affinity you can use less decorations to reach 100%.

You also become less reliant on weakness exploit.

6 slots attack is 14 raw.
6 slots affinity is 20%.

That's a big gap.

As far as custom augments attack there is a joke. +5 raw is not comparable to +5% affinity at all.

Attack augment is more efficient than slots for getting attack; affinity augment past level one is less efficient than slots for getting affinity. Now if you need non-damage skills you can’t fit, this is a fair argument. Definitely something to consider. But in general, the optimal augment on a large amount of raw focused weapons is actually Attack.

I consider the 30% piece of WEX to be ‘permanent’, as if you aren’t hitting weak points then your damage is ass regardless. It’s fair to give some leeway on the bonus 20%, but you’re still devaluing affinity there.

As for custom - the attack is more efficient there than on augments. It’s better to double augment affinity and custom attack than split augments and custom affinity. It’s a poor argument.

Basically - stop using ridiculous hyperbole when it isn’t needed.
I was a chemist.
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: potatocharlie

potatocharlie
4 days ago#37
I think people may be overlooking the benefits of an extra level 1 slot, or whatever you were slotting in for the last point of Critical Eye on weapons that get the affinity augment and hit 100%.

Health Boost, Divine Blessing, Fortify, Elemental Attack up skills, etc. are all level 1 deco's that are super useful. And plenty more that are monster specific - like slotting in Mirewalker for Shara or a point of Ironwall/Guard for your CB.
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User Info: Deaga

Deaga
4 days ago#38
mnowicki091 posted...
Any elemental weapons, affinity is best for the first augment, but after that I'm not sure if elemental or affinity is better.


In my experience calculating damage, you still want to get to 100% affinity first if using True Critical Element. And, well, assuming you already have Element 6 from charm + a single slot. The extra 5% affinity (from second augment onwards), in this scenario, is typically better than +3 true element you'd get from the element augment.

Obviously, as I mentioned in my previous post, there's a few more things to take into account. The first Element Augmentation is only one slot, which is very attractive. And, obviously, at 100% affinity the affinity augment is not doing anything anymore, so go element then.
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king_wallace posted...
Attack augment is more efficient than slots for getting attack; affinity augment past level one is less efficient than slots for getting affinity. Now if you need non-damage skills you can’t fit, this is a fair argument. Definitely something to consider. But in general, the optimal augment on a large amount of raw focused weapons is actually Attack.

I consider the 30% piece of WEX to be ‘permanent’, as if you aren’t hitting weak points then your damage is ass regardless. It’s fair to give some leeway on the bonus 20%, but you’re still devaluing affinity there.

Basically - stop using ridiculous hyperbole when it isn’t needed.
The actual bonus from attack augments are ass. You can argue health isn't optimal because you can just not get hit, but affinity, even at 5%, will beat attack. Especially since an attack augment costs 3 slots. It's basically a last resort augment, when you can't benefit from anything else.
Support for optimism: Nearly everyone I meet is some poor sod who doesn't realize what they've got, and I'm the worst offender.
We all learn when we lose it.

User Info: potatocharlie

potatocharlie
4 days ago#40
Button_Masher_Z posted...
The actual bonus from attack augments are ass. You can argue health isn't optimal because you can just not get hit, but affinity, even at 5%, will beat attack. Especially since an attack augment costs 3 slots. It's basically a last resort augment, when you can't benefit from anything else.


Someone is actually arguing that Attack augments are worth something in Iceborne?

Unless you're a H4RDC0R3 DPS speed runner, Attack augment is trash.
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