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  3. A Valid Argument Against Stun

User Info: DukeLukewarm

DukeLukewarm
2 months ago#11
The only thing about stun that could be considered potentially "unfair" is moves with guaranteed stun like Black Diablos's super charge.

User Info: SilverHawke27

SilverHawke27
2 months ago#12
I would say your argument itself is invalid.

There are ways to counter stun, just like there are ways to counter elemental blights, poison, paralysis, blast, and sleep. And when Iceborne is released, we may see a new resistance to being Frozen/Chilled.

Stun isn't fair if it cannot be countered. But you are given ways to do so. You can equip Stun Resist. You can learn to dodge or block.

You act as if Monster Hunter is the only game in the world that punishes a lack of skill. All video games do this. You learn from your mistakes and get better with practice.

Your argument essentially is claiming the game needs to be easier for those who refuse to use the skills they are given, or else to get any better in their gameplay.

But it's still an invalid argument. Games have been doing this since the Atari. It's nothing new. It's nothing different and it's certainly nothing important.

Now, if we did not have a Stun Resist skill and this was inflicted, then you might have something to argue about.
"Sa souvraya niende misain ye."
PSN: CrysisZephyr ~~~R.I.P - Burt Reynolds (9/6/18)~~~

User Info: The_Pup

The_Pup
2 months ago#13
Alright, have to counter you on your counter point:

There are two types of attacks. Those that matter and those that don't. They will result in the following:

- Hits that matter. (HTM)
- Hits that don't matter. (HTDM)

Hits that matter are those that will kill you. Wastes a ton of time and will definitely end the quest if you take enough of them.

Hits that don't matter will not kill you. Waste a few seconds and health (which is merely a gauge which determines if a hit matters or not). So virtually no punishment in the short term. Long term punishment can be mitigated because you can always chug a pot to erase your mistakes.

Stun mechanic exists to give value to HTDM. If you take enough of them (HTDM), they will convert into a HTM via the stun, thus giving the player an incentive to take fewer HTDM.

User Info: Great_Khan

Great_Khan
2 months ago#14
Bananamatic posted...
Great_Khan posted...
In regards to your argument, why shouldn't you be doubly punished for f***ing up super bad? Regular damage is a warning, if you keep making mistakes in succession it's totally fair for the game to inflict additional punishment.

Because "super bad" varies from monster to monster, it ranges from "how did you get hit that much without dying" to "you got hit twice in 30 seconds"
It feels more like a disabling status that some monsters inflict (like paralysis) than a general mechanic

Some monsters have incredibly low stun despite being massive like Behemoth, Vaal and Nerg, you could remove it from them entirely and it would make no difference, for some it's basically a core mechanic like Diablos or Teostra


Yeah that's fair, I don't like it when it's used in that context, ala the Super Kulu mentioned in the post.

User Info: SilverKyousuke

SilverKyousuke
2 months ago#15
Stun is only annoying to me when 1 hit leads to the monster wombo comboing me with attacks until I'm dead, or alive but stunned, which can lead to death.
If I just accumulate hits that I could've avoided and get stunned, then that's on me.
GT: xXPakkunXx My FC is: 3539-9672-6526
I'm not superstitious. I am, a little stitious.

User Info: Wasabi_Syn

Wasabi_Syn
2 months ago#16
If a player gets hit consecutively without any stuns to punish them, what's going to motivate said player to learn the monster's patterns? Said player will just play however way they want, knowing full well they can heal whenever they want. Stuns make you consider that possibility, "What if this next hit stuns and carts me? I should heal up while I can."

It's that extra thought process that pushes players to consider the next best plan of action.
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User Info: Somedude9

Somedude9
2 months ago#17
The_Pup posted...
Alright, have to counter you on your counter point:

There are two types of attacks. Those that matter and those that don't. They will result in the following:

- Hits that matter. (HTM)
- Hits that don't matter. (HTDM)

Hits that matter are those that will kill you. Wastes a ton of time and will definitely end the quest if you take enough of them.

Hits that don't matter will not kill you. Waste a few seconds and health (which is merely a gauge which determines if a hit matters or not). So virtually no punishment in the short term. Long term punishment can be mitigated because you can always chug a pot to erase your mistakes.

Stun mechanic exists to give value to HTDM. If you take enough of them (HTDM), they will convert into a HTM via the stun, thus giving the player an incentive to take fewer HTDM.


Wasabi_Syn posted...
If a player gets hit consecutively without any stuns to punish them, what's going to motivate said player to learn the monster's patterns? Said player will just play however way they want, knowing full well they can heal whenever they want. Stuns make you consider that possibility, "What if this next hit stuns and carts me? I should heal up while I can."

It's that extra thought process that pushes players to consider the next best plan of action.


Exactly, especially in world where you can walk and heal and stuck to doing the flex pose or your potion doesn’t actually heal you.

User Info: Caroniver

Caroniver
2 months ago#18
takeiteasy posted...
My counter-point is this: The hits you take leading up to the actual stun effect are themselves already a punishment for a lack of skill. Hence, the "unskilled" player is being punished twice. This is not fair. Because taking hits is a form of punishment for lack of skill in itself, no further penalties ought to be required. Therefore, the skill-based argument against the unfairness of stun is invalid.

Yes, damage is a punishment, but MonHun isn't a plug-n-chug game. If you get hit, heal, rush in, get hit again, heal again, the only punishment you'll get is running out of potions. And in this game, that doesn't matter since you can run back and get more.
However, if they lock you in after getting hit too much, then that forces you to notice that you're being reckless.
Stun works exactly like every other status and blight. Some moves apply a lot, some moves only apply a little.

HOWEVER, stun is bs in World exclusively. In all MonHun games, including World, you can mash out of it with evade and left stick. In previous installments, once you mashed out, stun was over. In this one, there's an animation for exiting stun which often lasts longer than the actual stun. Just like wind pressure, roars, and tremors, this previously minor inconvenience is now ridiculously powerful.

SilverKyousuke posted...
Stun is only annoying to me when 1 hit leads to the monster wombo comboing me with attacks until I'm dead, or alive but stunned, which can lead to death.
If I just accumulate hits that I could've avoided and get stunned, then that's on me.

Always keep in mind, nothing's a guaranteed combo. When you're sent flying, your hunter lies on the ground. If you touch the stick or press a button, they get up. While they're lying on the ground, they're safe. You can stay down for a considerable time if the monster is continuing to attack where you landed. Monsters where this is an invaluable technique include Diablos, Yian Garuga, Nargacuga, and Rajang.
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User Info: SilverKyousuke

SilverKyousuke
2 months ago#19
Caroniver posted...
takeiteasy posted...
My counter-point is this: The hits you take leading up to the actual stun effect are themselves already a punishment for a lack of skill. Hence, the "unskilled" player is being punished twice. This is not fair. Because taking hits is a form of punishment for lack of skill in itself, no further penalties ought to be required. Therefore, the skill-based argument against the unfairness of stun is invalid.

Yes, damage is a punishment, but MonHun isn't a plug-n-chug game. If you get hit, heal, rush in, get hit again, heal again, the only punishment you'll get is running out of potions. And in this game, that doesn't matter since you can run back and get more.
However, if they lock you in after getting hit too much, then that forces you to notice that you're being reckless.
Stun works exactly like every other status and blight. Some moves apply a lot, some moves only apply a little.

HOWEVER, stun is bs in World exclusively. In all MonHun games, including World, you can mash out of it with evade and left stick. In previous installments, once you mashed out, stun was over. In this one, there's an animation for exiting stun which often lasts longer than the actual stun. Just like wind pressure, roars, and tremors, this previously minor inconvenience is now ridiculously powerful.

SilverKyousuke posted...
Stun is only annoying to me when 1 hit leads to the monster wombo comboing me with attacks until I'm dead, or alive but stunned, which can lead to death.
If I just accumulate hits that I could've avoided and get stunned, then that's on me.

Always keep in mind, nothing's a guaranteed combo. When you're sent flying, your hunter lies on the ground. If you touch the stick or press a button, they get up. While they're lying on the ground, they're safe. You can stay down for a considerable time if the monster is continuing to attack where you landed. Monsters where this is an invaluable technique include Diablos, Yian Garuga, Nargacuga, and Rajang.

Your right. I'm only talking about the rare occasion when a monster just wants to sit on you until you get up and THEN starts another attack.
Had it happen on Nergi once, he stood there until my character automatically stood up and while I was getting up he did his headbutt and got me before I could dodge.
GT: xXPakkunXx My FC is: 3539-9672-6526
I'm not superstitious. I am, a little stitious.

User Info: SilverHawke27

SilverHawke27
2 months ago#20
Lying on the ground isn't 100% invulnerability however. Some attacks DO hit you if you are just lying there. It's not a perfect ploy by any means. You still have to learn when it's best to just lie there and take it, and when it's best to get up and haul ass.
"Sa souvraya niende misain ye."
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