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  3. What about Monster Hunter is "inaccessible" to newcomers?

User Info: EX_Bortthog

EX_Bortthog
2 years ago#181
I never said it made me better. But I already have you tagged, so I'm not surprised


MuttonBasher posted...

What if you hadn't had that experience? What if, instead, you'd had the guild girl's voice telling you what to do, button combos on the screen, damage numbers floating in the air, and all the other changes that MHW has made? Would your eventual triumph have been as meaningful?


Implied that your "triumph" would be more meaningful and make you feel like your better

The "triumph" would be the same regardless. The only difference is you would KNOW what to do instead of blindly smashing your face in a marathon of trial and error
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User Info: Etner

Etner
2 years ago#182
EX_Bortthog posted...
I never said it made me better. But I already have you tagged, so I'm not surprised


MuttonBasher posted...

What if you hadn't had that experience? What if, instead, you'd had the guild girl's voice telling you what to do, button combos on the screen, damage numbers floating in the air, and all the other changes that MHW has made? Would your eventual triumph have been as meaningful?


Implied that your "triumph" would be more meaningful and make you feel like your better

The "triumph" would be the same regardless. The only difference is you would KNOW what to do instead of blindly smashing your face in a marathon of trial and error


I'm... somewhat with Mutton here. Only a small bit, though. When I first played, I literally had no idea what any of the weapons did or could do, back in MHFU. Even one of the most basic things to do with the Longsword, the Fadeslash, I was unaware of. It took me like 20-something tries (3 cards per try) to finally beat my first Great Jaggi in MHFU with a Longsword. I even tried other weapons. The lack of information ingame is not something that should exist, I think.

I mean, if you don't want your ass handed to you, the game pretty much assumes that you have internet and know about online sources for information about... pretty much everything in the game. However, getting your ass kicked and then looking up item crafting recipes and weapon combos and elemental weaknesses can make you feel awesome because you went and gathered information on a monster and then came back and beat its ass.

But that's all just a tiny bit loss, for some people. I think the way that MHW does things is the best way. Giving you most of the information, but still keeping some things hidden. I assume that things like elemental weaknesses and weapon trees aren't given ingame. I assume recipes also aren't given ingame, so you have to find those. But I feel like MHW pretty much hit the sweet spot. You still feel like a badass when you beat stuff you previously couldn't, and stuff can still kick your ass. But you don't feel like a flailing retard like before since they actually give you the basics to get you started.

User Info: Isohunter

Isohunter
2 years ago#183
IIRC the fadeslash is explained in the LS tutorial; you can get an idea of a monster's elemental weakness looking at his armor and you can also figure a bunch of combinations with a bit of trial and error but I agree that this is kind of annoying.
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User Info: MuttonBasher

MuttonBasher
2 years ago#184
EX_Bortthog posted...
Implied that your "triumph" would be more meaningful and make you feel like your better

The comparison is between the triumph he did experience and the triumph he would have experienced with the changes made in MHW. My guess is that you're deliberately misunderstanding me. No offense, but I'm not going to engage with you anymore.

Etner posted...
I assume that things like elemental weaknesses and weapon trees aren't given ingame.

Weapon trees are shown in MHW. It's been in some of the videos. Awesome addition, especially if it's formatted better than (for example) kiranico.

Isohunter posted...
IIRC the fadeslash is explained in the LS tutorial

I still remember reading the paper game-insert (back when those were a thing; lol) for Tri and still not understanding how to use the GS. It was only after I'd comboed my way to Alatreon that someone finally took pity on me and told me I should start charging the thing.
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User Info: YoukaiSlayer

YoukaiSlayer
2 years ago#185
I'd argue the player that did figure it out without tutorials probably is in a better place to learn things coming forward. Taking the initiative to try things and learn and figure stuff out on your own is a skill that will keep being valuable forever in monster hunter. Monster hunter is largely a game about learning how to learn. That's the reason a veteran of the series will be able to quickly learn and take down new monsters even if they have entirely new movesets and effects.

The same way a player that learns how to fight a monster himself and a player who looks up a guide to know the optimal way to fight the monster aren't on even ground. Going forward the player that learned it himself learned a lot more than just how to fight that one monster.

I also like how in this topic since I mentioned it we keep getting more and more new players coming in and giving the exact same story I mentioned where they struggled with the lack of information but in the end felt immense satisfaction in beating the monster.

Obviously for me personally I don't care too much about tutorials. I already know monster hunter. I just feel it damages the game as a whole and moves me further and further away from the target audience.
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User Info: cooolio

cooolio
2 years ago#186
I definitely can relate to that sense of accomplishment. I remember having trouble with qurupeco with my switch axe in tri. I just had to learn about timing my swings with when it moved to face me and it made it much easier. I learned and became better because of it.
Life is neither cruel nor precious. Some people are just born in pain others either walk in it or wield it.

User Info: MrSmi7h

MrSmi7h
2 years ago#187
Isohunter posted...
IIRC the fadeslash is explained in the LS tutorial; you can get an idea of a monster's elemental weakness looking at his armor and you can also figure a bunch of combinations with a bit of trial and error but I agree that this is kind of annoying.


Info on armors is often wrong though.

Besides, you can't figure out how insignificant the impact of the elemental damage is, as displayed in the amount of players bringing low rank, elemental weapons.
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User Info: Terron145

Terron145
2 years ago#188
MrSmi7h posted...
Info on armors is often wrong though.
Often? What armor sets have you been looking at? Elemental Resistances on Full Sets are accurate in regards to letting you know what a monster is most susceptible to element-wise.

The issue is that the armor doesn't tell you if the monster's hitzones are biased towards Raw or Element Damage. This ends up not even being a large factor outside of specific monsters like Gravios since most Blademaster Weapons are biased towards their Raw in the first place. The Bow and HBG are similar in this regard.

User Info: EX_Bortthog

EX_Bortthog
2 years ago#189
YoukaiSlayer posted...
I'd argue the player that did figure it out without tutorials probably is in a better place to learn things coming forward. Taking the initiative to try things and learn and figure stuff out on your own is a skill that will keep being valuable forever in monster hunter. Monster hunter is largely a game about learning how to learn. That's the reason a veteran of the series will be able to quickly learn and take down new monsters even if they have entirely new movesets and effects.


This is entirely subjective and up to the person themselves. Some people learn better by doing, others by watching.

The same way a player that learns how to fight a monster himself and a player who looks up a guide to know the optimal way to fight the monster aren't on even ground. Going forward the player that learned it himself learned a lot more than just how to fight that one monster.


This is inherently wrong. A player who learned to fight solely on practice knows only what the monster had currently done. The person who did research knows ALL the monster can do at any given moment. They are not on even ground if they have equal skill because the one who did research will know infinitely more and therein make better decisions in the fight. The only way the one who does not research is on better ground is if he is simply that much more mechanically skilled

I also like how in this topic since I mentioned it we keep getting more and more new players coming in and giving the exact same story I mentioned where they struggled with the lack of information but in the end felt immense satisfaction in beating the monster.


This is again subjective. You feel satisfaction from trial and error, while some may not feel this way. Some may feel an inadequate tutorial to basic mechanics is actually harmful (fyi it actually IS because all it does is serve to separate those who research and those who don't. That's tantamount to saying tutorials are fine if you look them up)

Obviously for me personally I don't care too much about tutorials. I already know monster hunter. I just feel it damages the game as a whole and moves me further and further away from the target audience.


So who exactly IS the target audience? Just you and those who think like you? Or those who enjoy Monster Hunter? Are you implying everyone who is a fan will feel exactly the same? That those who don't aren't fans?
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