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  3. Goddamn GT sucks. *possible spoilers*

User Info: Hell_Thrasher

Hell_Thrasher
4 weeks ago#51
Lorulian posted...
Hell_Thrasher posted...
The ending was really the only bad part.

Trunks just sorta won... because

But he didn't...? Trunks just made it worse and they had to resort to asking Zeno for help.

Hell_Thrasher posted...
It felt like a Saint Seiya fight where the hero gets his ass kicked, and then somehow wins in one shot.

Hmmm another Toei anime...


The fight was over when Trunks cut Zamasu in half. Even if Goku had to call Zeno in to finish him off, the battle ended when Trunks did his stuff.

Saint Seiya being bad has nothing to do with Toei. Toei can do great stuff. It's just a bad series in general with some terrible writing.
"If the anime doesn't make me question if I'm on cocaine, then it's not worth my time" - The greatest human being who ever lived.

User Info: Kataphrut

Kataphrut
4 weeks ago#52
It bored me enough that I stopped watching it around Super 17 back when it came out, and nothing I've seen after has made me consider a rewatch.

I feel like there's been a lot more pro-GT sentiment coming to the forefront lately, out of a combination of defensiveness (we all liked crap when we were kids) and dislike of Super, which is definitely a more legitimate replacement for it as a sequel to Z if nothing else.

But you know, sometimes things have a reputation for being bad for a reason.

User Info: SONIC_305

SONIC_305
4 weeks ago#53
@Hell_Thrasher
For me it was just bad because of:
-Trunks future was destroyed by geno and ends up living with another trunks. Hated this the most because it made me feel like trunks didnt deserved to lose his future earth after finally saving it from 17 and 18 just wanted him to have his future saved and not mess with time travel anymore.
-goku and vegeta losing twice and time traveling back especially how dumb one of the escapes was (lol)
-trunks transformation out of nowhere and taking losses except the spirit sword scene
-hyping up the mafuba just for it to be a joke again even tho I did like that it lead up to a fusion fight
-vegito defused as a nitpick lol because i really wished he won that fight and fusion win for once besides the movie (LOL)
-pacing/powerscaling

This is all my opinion I know it has its moments in parts.

I think goku only won legit solo on frieza as the only main villain of the arc so I dont think it's always just goku only since he always had help with someone to win or frieza weakened in the movie. Just trying to say I dont think it's that bad to think goku mainly won (I guess twice if you wanna count trunks where he killed frieza saying in the original timeline goku beats frieza and king cold) and that was it in Z to super. Unless you want to count the movies.

Raditz beat with help of piccolo, vegeta beaten with help of gohan/yajirobe/krillin, Gohan beat cell, goku pulled it off killing kid buu with help of vegeta and hercule, goku killing frieza through traveling back time after vegeta beat up and weakened him, goku loses to hit in tourney even tho he was beating him with the kaioken (lol), trunks killing zamasu with help, Jiren beaten with goku/17/frieza

I'm pretty sure I'm wrong somewhere.
PSN: KlonoaxGuntz BBCF Mains: Ragna, Makoto, Izayoi and Es
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(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: MeepleLardicle

MeepleLardicle
4 weeks ago#54
I know I'm a bit late, but I'll reiterate that a microcosm of GT vs. Super can be viewed via SSJ4 Gogeta and the Vegito Blue moments. Yes, I know, Gogeta is now in Super as well, but the Vegito moment is far closer a parallel.

First off, the intro:

Gogeta, there's a lot of time wasting with reaction shots, and staying on stills. There's a whole minute spent on the time between "THe Fusion Dance ends" until the actual Gogeta reveal.
Vegito? Pillar of light, and then he stands there, and simply does his schpeil, BAM, SSB on the spot.

You could say "but build up and suspsense" but...well...we'll get to the pay off.

Both fights involve them "no selling" a big energy ball of destruction. Vegito, he casually grabs the blast, spends about 5 seconds struggling with it, and vaporizes it. Quick, to the point, and demonstrates how powerful he is without wasting time.

Gogeta? We have a long intro of Omega charging the blast, then the ball SLOWLY DESCENDS on Gogeta, and then Gogeta screams and shouts as he kicks the ball. Sure, impressive, but it took way longer to get the same point across there.

The actual fight itself? Vegito's fight with Zamasu, there's some sense of tension. Zamasu is actually putting up a fight, for all that yes, Vegito does seem to have the upperhand. They even have a tease where Zamasu knocks Vegito down, only for Vegito to fake him out with a bit of "Spirit Sword" fanservice. It's also one of the better animated fights up to that point in the franchise, with a nice back and forth, and even when Vegito clearly takes the upperhand when Zamasu loses his rationale, we still see the fight itself, no cheap shortcuts.

Gogeta...it's a curbstomp. They try to go "HA! I'm attacking so fast you can't see!" to basically save on animation (it's a cheap trick, let's be real.) Like Vegito, the only time Gogeta really gets hit is when he lets him, but it's a bunch of blasts and Gogeta goes "Tee-hee, that was a nice massage, can you do my back as well!" As soon as THAT happens, it's impossible to believe Omega has any chance.

How about the Smacktalking? Well, Vegito has 2 moments that stand out to me:

-Zamasu goes on his rant about mortals and sadness and *punch to the face* It's quick, to the point, entirely in-character, and Vegito's line of "Sorry, you left yourself wide open"; it's a subversion of the Villain Monologuing trope, and nice to see Dragon Ball do it's own satire of it. Yes, it's nothing new, but the timing was perfect because it's so sudden, and when you add in "Vegito has a time limit"...well, yeah, he aint wasting time!

-Zamasu does another rant, and Vegito is doing commentary, even "...are you seriously crying?" It just WORKS.

Gogeta, meanwhile...also has the time time limit problems...goes with a FAKE OUT KAMEHAMEHA which is a "...really?" moment. I get it; he's holding back because he wants OMega to use the NEGATIVE ENERGY to turn against him, but this felt cheesy in the wrong ways.

Big Bang Kamehameha vs. Final Kamehameha:

Final, it looks like what we expect: A combination of the two attacks. We see him go into the poses, fire the blue/yellow beam, and a nice and quick animated sequence of him blasting Zamasu happens. THat's all it is and that's all it needed to be.

Big Bang Kamehameha really should be similarly impressive...but it's just a blue ball with a wind-blast coming from it; doesn't look like either attack really, and we just see Omega's reaction.

Final has a build up and a pay off, Big Bang is just disappointment here.

I don't know how, nostalgia aside, someone can look at these two sequences and say "GT did it better" because it's night and day...literally actually now that I think about it...though "Night" is the good one here <_<
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(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: Lorulian

Lorulian
4 weeks ago#55
Hell_Thrasher posted...
Lorulian posted...
Hell_Thrasher posted...
The ending was really the only bad part.

Trunks just sorta won... because

But he didn't...? Trunks just made it worse and they had to resort to asking Zeno for help.

Hell_Thrasher posted...
It felt like a Saint Seiya fight where the hero gets his ass kicked, and then somehow wins in one shot.

Hmmm another Toei anime...


The fight was over when Trunks cut Zamasu in half. Even if Goku had to call Zeno in to finish him off, the battle ended when Trunks did his stuff.

Saint Seiya being bad has nothing to do with Toei. Toei can do great stuff. It's just a bad series in general with some terrible writing.

It really wasn't over; it escalated

In the anime, Zamasu's immortal soul enveloped the universe. In the manga, Zamasu pulled a Return of Cooler.

Regardless, Trunks didn't win. They needed Zeno's help for their victory.
Currently Playing: Resident Evil 2, DQ XI, Sekiro, Samus Returns, Pokemon: Eevee, Dark Souls: RE, Fire Emblem: Echoes, DBFZ, Smash Ultimate

User Info: finalfantasy94

finalfantasy94
4 weeks ago#56
Lorulian posted...
megasoniczxx posted...
Lorulian posted...
megasoniczxx posted...
I do wish they had gone back and redid it though since it had a lot great ideas (like the dragon balls becoming corrupt, an ancient race that's come back for revenge on the saiyans and goku's transformation actually making a whole lot of sense from a lore perspective), it was just lacking in execution.

GT gets a lot of credit for the Baby Saga as a good original idea, when in fact it just was a rip-off of the "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" OVA.

Dr Myuu = Dr Lychee

Baby = Hatchiyack

They're both about a Tuffle wanting revenge against the Saiyans.

But apparently no one's seen the OVA, so GT takes all the credit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I thought that OVA came afterwards? I will admit I haven't seen it although I typically don't pay too much mind to the DBZ movies since they never have any bearing on the plot (kind of the same way with most anime movies).

The OVA came out afterwards in the west. But it's actually an old ass OVA, pre-dating GT's original run.

The original was never released here, only it's remake:

https://i.imgtc.com/O9prsUE.jpg

But yeah, GT directly stole the plotline from this OVA for the Baby Saga.

GT also ripped off early DB for it's first arc, going as far as copying entire storylines (the GT Trunks wedding episode is identical to Oolongs introduction).

Also Super 17 is very similar to Fusion Reborn (a story involving fusion and hell breaking loose).

GT is as unoriginal as they come, AND it was executed poorly.

Super just has someone cosplaying as goku like ginyu. It also repeats scenes from Z just with wayyyyyyyyy less flair and impact. Just look at vegetas scenes during TOP.
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(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: finalfantasy94

finalfantasy94
4 weeks ago#57
@The_DOAM
Gokus black was awful. He was just a god doing cosplay and they did nothing with it. Zamusu himself was just some whiny god who just b****ed and b****ed. Lets not forget the whole trunks arc itself was crap cause instead of leaving it alone they bring it back only to basically spit on trunks. In Z he came back and finally took down the androids and cell there was a feeling of relief and joy for the character. Here they make him fail 100%. He loses everything and even admits that he failed after everything when he sees gohan again. Yea his world got brought back time wise, but again its not his world since a trunks and mai was brought back as well for that world.

The tournys sucked for the most part so much so I hear the manga actually cut a lot of it out. It also brought in jiren who is the worst character ever brought into the series. Friza coming back just pushed buu a character everyone wanted to see fight in the background and it also made frost even more pointless seriously why was that character made again? It also put more of a stain on goku which I didn't think was possible since super was already doing a bang up job at screwing him up since it made him revive a monster that will go on to kill more people. Then when him and friza did the final push was so bad my eyes rolled into the back of my head. Theres more problems with super but this was just some stuff. I aint calling GT perfect, but it had my interest more with some of it stuff and to be honest the the only thing that really pissed me off in GT is goku just used everyone as batteries as they made everyone else usless and weak.
got reviews and more at In My Opinion:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEHPzU5Zjg2mAoYpeQgMtUw
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(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: Will_Hill_pimp

Will_Hill_pimp
4 weeks ago#58
lolak posted...
Will_Hill_pimp posted...
It’s STILL significantly better than super though. Like, miles better.

Bullcrap. Super is infinitely better than GT despite its problems. GT was an absolute train wreck.


Which part of Super isn’t a train wreck? The tournament set up by cat-men or the tournament set up by the rainbow watermelon slice? I am not even going to go into the re-telling of the movies. The Goku Black arc was the only decent idea, but they butchered it with the retcons and the awful ending.

User Info: bvillebro

bvillebro
4 weeks ago#59
Had super came out in the 90s, it would have been cancelled just as soon as GT

now just imagine the GT storyline with all the advanced animation and choreography of the later Super episodes. Let alone several movies

The only advantage super has over GT is that its a modern series with much greater production value. Both GT and Super only have 1 good saga (Baby, Black), both the Black Star Dragons and ToP could have been good but blew potential.

To me the fact that a mid 2010s series with many of the canon writers behind it/influencing it cant even shake comparisons to stuff Toei pulled out of their ass 20 years ago is pretty sad
Learning something new everyday

User Info: TheAngryPotato

TheAngryPotato
4 weeks ago#60
Super really has no right to be getting on GT's case for being slow and dragged out after they put out something as embarrassing as episode 12.

That was easily one of the most boring and painful slogs of an episode I've ever witnessed, they basically wasted an entire episode showing Goku and Beerus slowly punch their fists together three times while we get to watch slow rippling waves and plain reaction shots telling us how scary those two are supposed to be. A lot of DB fans ate that s*** up because they just care about power levels and characters shouting "The universe is in danger!" = good episode to them, but that basically made me drop off watching the Super anime for a good while because it was such an unbelievable drag to sit through, and it's especially insulting when the whole thing was a recap of something we had already seen.
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