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User Info: Sethera

Sethera
1 year ago#21
Noob question:

What are mixups, crossups and overheads?
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
Freedom of speech is words that they will bend.

User Info: rahmed51387

rahmed51387
1 year ago#22
Sethera posted...
Noob question:

What are mixups, crossups and overheads?

Mixups - sequential attacks usually in blockstrings placed against the opponent to force them to guess which way to block (usually guessing between high and low). Like alternating LLM2M versus LL2M5M will force the opponent to guess whether they need to block high or low depending on when you block low.

Crossups - a special mix up, usually a jumping attack (exception being Beerus's auto 5LLL and most Vanishes) that forces the defender to block by facing forward as the attack lands behind their current position. The idea is that the attack crosses over the player as an attempt to open them up from the other side.

Overhead - a ground attack that can only be blocked high. If someone is low blocking, they WILL get hit by this attack, it is used to discourage safe low blocking and continue pressure. Blue Goku's 3rd hit in 5LLL will hurt you if you are crouching and blocking.
PSN:LonelyDesperado
MissTFayed: rahmed51387 - You got the surfer accent. You are officially the smartest person on here.
Wouldn't it be easier to say "down forward" or "down back" since most notations are like that?
"I'm an atheist too but still believe in hell. That's where you're headed pal." - Mr_Karate_II

User Info: rahmed51387

rahmed51387
1 year ago#24
LightningAce11 posted...
Wouldn't it be easier to say "down forward" or "down back" since most notations are like that?

It comes more in handy when talking about long direction inputs mixed with attacks, especially in combo notation, mostly to type more than anything.
PSN:LonelyDesperado
MissTFayed: rahmed51387 - You got the surfer accent. You are officially the smartest person on here.

User Info: Sethera

Sethera
1 year ago#25
rahmed51387 posted...
Sethera posted...
Noob question:

What are mixups, crossups and overheads?

Mixups - sequential attacks usually in blockstrings placed against the opponent to force them to guess which way to block (usually guessing between high and low). Like alternating LLM2M versus LL2M5M will force the opponent to guess whether they need to block high or low depending on when you block low.

Crossups - a special mix up, usually a jumping attack (exception being Beerus's auto 5LLL and most Vanishes) that forces the defender to block by facing forward as the attack lands behind their current position. The idea is that the attack crosses over the player as an attempt to open them up from the other side.

Overhead - a ground attack that can only be blocked high. If someone is low blocking, they WILL get hit by this attack, it is used to discourage safe low blocking and continue pressure. Blue Goku's 3rd hit in 5LLL will hurt you if you are crouching and blocking.

Thanks a lot! All of this stuff is very interesting to casual fighting game enthusiasts.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
Freedom of speech is words that they will bend.

User Info: DrunkenPilot72

DrunkenPilot72
1 year ago#26
scaler24 posted...
Should add Ultimate Gohan's 5L hitting low to the list of problematic auto combos. His QCF M also crosses-up AND is an overhead.

Adult Gohan is a special case. Normally he isn't a problem (QCF+M is a flying dash so it is easy to react to) but the second he unlocks he becomes a rush down machine. QCF+M then becomes an over head IT and 3M becomes stupid good for harassment.

I wouldn't list 5L as anything special though. Crouch blocking should be your default guard position if the opponent is grounded otherwise you are open to 2M5M launches. Grounded over head attacks that lead into combos are the real danger and Gohan still needs a bar before he gets access to his. Gohan's default QCF+M is just a normal special overhead that has enough of a visual cue to guard against. Unlocked QCF+M ditches that visual cue which makes it a problem.

BillbertGundam posted...
If you have meter, vanish will beat out homing dash for free.

Sometimes the goddamn homing dash will auto correct and hit me instead.

That can happen if you vanished from the air. Homing dash does some weird s*** if you try to fight against it in the air.

rahmed51387 posted...
Mixups - sequential attacks usually in blockstrings placed against the opponent to force them to guess which way to block (usually guessing between high and low). Like alternating LLM2M versus LL2M5M will force the opponent to guess whether they need to block high or low depending on when you block low.

Minor correction - LL5M2M versus LL2M5M isn't a real mix up as crouching guard beats both strings.

Mix ups are attack patterns that put the opponent in a situation that requires a very specific defensive option to beat:
Over head attacks have to be guarded high
Low attacks have to be guarded low
Throws can't be guarded but are slow so they can be interupted
Cross ups change direction orientation which makes guarding difficult

Take Black for example, one of the reasons why he is so damn popular is because he has everything needed for an infuriating mix up game:

Over head options - IAD, IT, normal jump, double jump
Low options - 2L and 2M
Throw options - Dragon Rush and Zamasu command grab
Cross up options - IAD, vanish, EX IT, double jump

Black's unique options are bolded. He has 3 extra options to worry about which makes guarding that much more difficult against him. Even worse is how those options can cover multiple situations - IT is an over head if he attacks while still in the air but can easily become a low if Black falls to the ground then goes for a crouching attack. Black has a much stronger mix up game than most characters as a result.
PSN: vyers72
FC: 0860-3464-0095
(edited 1 year ago)

User Info: jnsn87

jnsn87
1 year ago#27
@DrunkenPilot72 this is why I believe A. Gohan and Black are both S tier. From what I've experienced anyway, no other character on the roster has as many options as they do.

With that being said, I think anyway, that we see so many Blacks on teams because people "know" he's good, but don't know the reasons why from a technical standpoint. My point to saying is this leads to people guessing which kind of Black they're going up against right now (while the game is still young). I guess this is true for most games in general, people using meta game and not knowing how to execute said meta, but where this game is very accessible for all players, it's just throwing that extra mind game in for more experienced players as to how this Supreme Kai ranked Black will play out (which is another reason why I love this game to SFV).
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I don't get what 5M is. Do you need to press medium attack 5 times?
"I'm an atheist too but still believe in hell. That's where you're headed pal." - Mr_Karate_II

User Info: Nazdrovie

Nazdrovie
1 year ago#29
LightningAce11 posted...
I don't get what 5M is. Do you need to press medium attack 5 times?

When you see a button prefaced by a number, try referring to the input notation (often referred to as numpad notation) mentioned right at the very top of this sticky:

Input Notation
Numbers represent directions - they mirror the number pad on a key board.

789
456
123

The assumption is always that your character is on the left side so 8 is up, 6 is forward, 2 is down, and 4 is back. A quarter circle forward motion looks like 236 (start at down and roll to forward).

Letters and other abbreviations refer to attack buttons or character positions.
L = light attack
M = medium attack
H = heavy attack
S = special attack (unique attack/ki blast)
J = jumping

Since 5 is at the center, 5M would then mean to press M while the stick is at a neutral position. Basically, it's your normal everyday "just press the M button" thing.
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User Info: DrunkenPilot72

DrunkenPilot72
1 year ago#30
jnsn87 posted...
@DrunkenPilot72 this is why I believe A. Gohan and Black are both S tier. From what I've experienced anyway, no other character on the roster has as many options as they do.

With that being said, I think anyway, that we see so many Blacks on teams because people "know" he's good, but don't know the reasons why from a technical standpoint. My point to saying is this leads to people guessing which kind of Black they're going up against right now (while the game is still young). I guess this is true for most games in general, people using meta game and not knowing how to execute said meta, but where this game is very accessible for all players, it's just throwing that extra mind game in for more experienced players as to how this Supreme Kai ranked Black will play out (which is another reason why I love this game to SFV).

I'd say 18 and 21 are up their too. 18 has tremendous lock down potential thanks to 17 + what ever assists you are rocking and 21 has tremendous growth potential. Assuming none of them get nerfed, I'd say they are all strong candidates. Oddly enough Gohan is the only one of that group that doesn't have a command grab.

As for Black, you are 100% right about low level Black players. It is obvious he is good but the lion's share of Black players I've seen never touch IT. In most cases they play him exactly like SSJ Goku which is a waste. Oddly enough I'll see weird things like all Goku teams but only SSB has any thought put into him. All of the IT spam I've seen has come from SSB and his isn't even that good of an IT.

LightningAce11 posted...
I don't get what 5M is. Do you need to press medium attack 5 times?

5M is just neutral M, no directional input needed (see 5 on the keyboard number pad).
PSN: vyers72
FC: 0860-3464-0095
(edited 1 year ago)
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