I am still confused on who could be the villain representative for XIII

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  3. I am still confused on who could be the villain representative for XIII

User Info: InjusticeLogic

InjusticeLogic
3 months ago#1
Dysley is barely used and tends to be utterly forgotten (not that I blame them, since as much as he has impact on the story, he is not a memorable character by himself)

Orphan is a non-human, and thus counts out.

Cid Raines is popular but is at best a mid-level one time boss. Hell, when he returns as cameo later on, it is not even as a villain.

Caius makes most sense, but comes from spin off (albeit in case off FFXIII they can be counted as altogether trilogy) and yet is not as popular in Japan as he is here (doesn't have that many cameos).

Seriously, who is the villain representative for FFXIII?
PS, no not Jihl Nabaat, she is basically same as Cid but even less relevant and popular.
Lover of fighting games and guessing characters
"If you think your opinion matters, what else can you offer except that it came from you?"

User Info: MeepleLardicle

MeepleLardicle
3 months ago#2
Cid has been used for the villain role when necessary in FF13 in other content, I fail to see why it'd be such a big deal here.

This is a large part why people think it'll be Cid Raines really. He was the first villain rep in Record Keeper, is used in Theatrhythm: All Star Carnival as FF13's Villain, and appeared opposite Lightning in Monster Strike or whatever it's called.

So there is a precedent...

Also, I still call into question Caius' alleged North American popularity, in that I've seen nothing to suggest he actually is popular. The only proof are small GFAQs polls (GFAQs in itself is a bit of an echo-chamber), situations that suggest "Vocal minority" and someone citing his theme has over 1 million views (when FF13-2 music in general gets a lot of views; of note, "Wish" has nearly triple the amount on the same channel.) Heck, I recall an article written about what makes a good villain, and Caius was used to represent how NOT to make a villain, with Xenoblade Chronicles villain being the opposite (he used both since he just finished playing both games, so there's a reason he highlighted both.) I honestly think it's just a case of vocal minorities speaking up, as FF13-2 itself is not very popular in the west, and by extension, that hurts Caius' worth.
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User Info: Squall_L

Squall_L
3 months ago#3
InjusticeLogic posted...
Dysley is barely used and tends to be utterly forgotten (not that I blame them, since as much as he has impact on the story, he is not a memorable character by himself)

Orphan is a non-human, and thus counts out.

Cid Raines is popular but is at best a mid-level one time boss. Hell, when he returns as cameo later on, it is not even as a villain.

Caius makes most sense, but comes from spin off (albeit in case off FFXIII they can be counted as altogether trilogy) and yet is not as popular in Japan as he is here (doesn't have that many cameos).

Seriously, who is the villain representative for FFXIII?
PS, no not Jihl Nabaat, she is basically same as Cid but even less relevant and popular.


Mhm i dont know i still bet all on Cid Raines i mean he is indeed not a evil person in the game,not a main antagonist either, but he incarnate i think well the main point of XIII,what i mean is he is like the heroes a slave of a unjust fate imposed on him by the gods,he start by first just pretending to help them but he already gave up to be able to escape and is just leading them all on the road to destroy Cocoon, he watch them though fight and keep believe they can escape their focus,which light the hope in Cid back that he can still escape his focus,even if unwilling he see himself killing the group as the best way to oppose his fate even knowing full well kill them cant be called fully a justice act,as they also been forced toward a unjust path as much as he.

Later on the gods just make one last joke at his struggle to escape by using as tool to simply cause the revolt by making believe the all cavalry he betrayed them appointing him Primarch,resulting in his left hand man just ending his life as Cid is unable to stand anymore be a puppet.

In the end the gods remain the true and real enemy behind the full XIII series but none of them can be represented with a usable body for dissidia,but i believe despite be more a man going through a tragedy story more then someone evil,Cid represent well the game main theme i think as human used and abused by the gods for their purposes,in the end is just bad luck i guess the all plot ended up putting him against the hero group but think its enough for dissidia to represent him on Spiritus side,after all character like Golbez also are hardly evil despite still be on Spiritus side even if he committed atrocious act under Zemus control,i believe even if Cid havent done as much bad things he still give a different perspective of "evil side" in his way,which is nice for variety.

User Info: icelos

icelos
3 months ago#4
I really want Jihl Nabaat though :(
Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment.

User Info: mad_hax_man

mad_hax_man
3 months ago#5
I would but a the season pass in a minute if it turned out the XIII villain was Orphan in a human form...but he still had his three heads
"Hey bridesmaid, love the beard! Give's me something to hang onto!!"- Lord Flasheart

User Info: InjusticeLogic

InjusticeLogic
3 months ago#6
Squall_L posted...
InjusticeLogic posted...
Dysley is barely used and tends to be utterly forgotten (not that I blame them, since as much as he has impact on the story, he is not a memorable character by himself)

Orphan is a non-human, and thus counts out.

Cid Raines is popular but is at best a mid-level one time boss. Hell, when he returns as cameo later on, it is not even as a villain.

Caius makes most sense, but comes from spin off (albeit in case off FFXIII they can be counted as altogether trilogy) and yet is not as popular in Japan as he is here (doesn't have that many cameos).

Seriously, who is the villain representative for FFXIII?
PS, no not Jihl Nabaat, she is basically same as Cid but even less relevant and popular.


Mhm i dont know i still bet all on Cid Raines i mean he is indeed not a evil person in the game,not a main antagonist either, but he incarnate i think well the main point of XIII,what i mean is he is like the heroes a slave of a unjust fate imposed on him by the gods,he start by first just pretending to help them but he already gave up to be able to escape and is just leading them all on the road to destroy Cocoon, he watch them though fight and keep believe they can escape their focus,which light the hope in Cid back that he can still escape his focus,even if unwilling he see himself killing the group as the best way to oppose his fate even knowing full well kill them cant be called fully a justice act,as they also been forced toward a unjust path as much as he.

Later on the gods just make one last joke at his struggle to escape by using as tool to simply cause the revolt by making believe the all cavalry he betrayed them appointing him Primarch,resulting in his left hand man just ending his life as Cid is unable to stand anymore be a puppet.

In the end the gods remain the true and real enemy behind the full XIII series but none of them can be represented with a usable body for dissidia,but i believe despite be more a man going through a tragedy story more then someone evil,Cid represent well the game main theme i think as human used and abused by the gods for their purposes,in the end is just bad luck i guess the all plot ended up putting him against the hero group but think its enough for dissidia to represent him on Spiritus side,after all character like Golbez also are hardly evil despite still be on Spiritus side even if he committed atrocious act under Zemus control,i believe even if Cid havent done as much bad things he still give a different perspective of "evil side" in his way,which is nice for variety.


Thing is, Golbez did in fact acted as the main evil until Zeromus was revealed, as such he was actively involved in the same manner as Dysley, rather than Cid.
Lover of fighting games and guessing characters
"If you think your opinion matters, what else can you offer except that it came from you?"

User Info: InjusticeLogic

InjusticeLogic
3 months ago#7
MeepleLardicle posted...
Cid has been used for the villain role when necessary in FF13 in other content, I fail to see why it'd be such a big deal here.

This is a large part why people think it'll be Cid Raines really. He was the first villain rep in Record Keeper, is used in Theatrhythm: All Star Carnival as FF13's Villain, and appeared opposite Lightning in Monster Strike or whatever it's called.

So there is a precedent...

Also, I still call into question Caius' alleged North American popularity, in that I've seen nothing to suggest he actually is popular. The only proof are small GFAQs polls (GFAQs in itself is a bit of an echo-chamber), situations that suggest "Vocal minority" and someone citing his theme has over 1 million views (when FF13-2 music in general gets a lot of views; of note, "Wish" has nearly triple the amount on the same channel.) Heck, I recall an article written about what makes a good villain, and Caius was used to represent how NOT to make a villain, with Xenoblade Chronicles villain being the opposite (he used both since he just finished playing both games, so there's a reason he highlighted both.) I honestly think it's just a case of vocal minorities speaking up, as FF13-2 itself is not very popular in the west, and by extension, that hurts Caius' worth.


But regardless of Caius popularity, Cid as villain representative feels weird. He isn't Jecht, for example, or even Golbez, each of which had an opposing philosophy and or disposition to the protagonist. He is similar to Lightning as L'Cie thing, yes, but they never were rivals and there was no anymosity in their meetings.

Caius does that better, mainly since he is a God of Chaos and Lightning is of Etro. The best way to explain this is why for example Jecht made more sense as foil to Tidus rather than Seymour, who is a good villain candidate, let's not lie.

Honestly, if they didn't botch the character of Dysley as generic main villain, we wouldn't have this conversation Imo.
Lover of fighting games and guessing characters
"If you think your opinion matters, what else can you offer except that it came from you?"

User Info: Squall_L

Squall_L
3 months ago#8
InjusticeLogic posted...

Thing is, Golbez did in fact acted as the main evil until Zeromus was revealed, as such he was actively involved in the same manner as Dysley, rather than Cid.


Thats true but even if Dysley used a human body as a disguised for his well not humanoid godly form,he chose the apperance of a real old man which i suppose for the style of dissidia might be mhmm a bit off ? imagine him jumping around xD you could say he could tele like Ex death but still...add his lack of popularity in JP he was pratically never used in any spin off, the choice remain i think manly between Cid and Caius because they are both way more easy to implement and make use of in game,and yet i still believe like Meeple mentioned up, that Cid higher popularity in JP and the fact he keep be represented as the main villain for XIII in spin off, seem to push a lot to think that if the if they were to choose a villain there is a good probability it will be Raines.

User Info: BahamutX978

BahamutX978
3 months ago#9
Thing about Caius, he has no actual connection to Lightning as a character. They have no history together, and even as characters, no similarities or parallels. They fought because Lightning stood in his way, and ultimately their conflict was meaningless and pointless. And I'm not just saying that because I don't like Caius, I'm saying that because when you sit and think about XIII's plot, you realize Caius never actually needed to fight her. Their battle was essentially just "This is is why Lightning isn't around".

Barth meanwhile, is an effective villain. He does a good job driving the plot. But as a character, he is lacking. He has no personal connection to the cast. He is the antagonist though, and I do wish he had a chance on that ground, but he won't. The lack of actual character and personality, or even personal connection to the cast make him not very memorable. And biggest reason of all, his fal'cie form just doesn't translate well to gameplay.

Raines meanwhile, is something that neither of those two are; An actual foil to Lightning as a character. Both are similar as characters, like being the only 2 of the 9 l'cie who don't initially go against the Focus forced on them, as well as parallels in being opposite in many ways.
Bored of my old sig

User Info: Fenris30

Fenris30
3 months ago#10
I think it'll probably be Raines, but if Prishe is in this pass(which I suspect she is, but there could be a scenario: re: someone like Lilith being number 3), I don't see him making it this pass unless they want to shove in three pugilists in one go(and two of them being 'Classy Monk Dudes who have Monster Forms').

I have two main predictions for this pass(only guesses.) Raines is in one of them.

Prediction 1(my main guess): Vayne-Locke-Serah-Zenos-Prishe-Ardyn

Prediction 2(IMO less likely but not impossible): Vayne-Locke-Lady Lilith/Lillisette-Zenos-Yuna-Cid

(4/6 are interchangeable but I'm quite convinced Zenos is solidified as XIV's villain pick. Popularity aside-and he tops the villain list there-he just has a ton more over any other XIV villain and it'd be weird at this point to see them use someone with less of a good Dissidia move list, less potential for story tie, less of a Blood Knight attitude, etc.)

While I do think Space Pope has a point as a villain, I don't think he's a particularly good selling point of a season pass this early.

(People say Vayne isn't popular but he actually was quite well received in Japan, and it's not like he's unpopular so much as he seems to be more average in the west. Meanwhile very few, AFAIK, really give a crap about Space Pope. Yes, there are instances of say Xande being more popular than CoD but she got the spot because end boss, but I think popularity in the case of the XIII crew matters a bit more to them than popularity in the III crew.)
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