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  3. Jax isn't waiting centuries for people to get woke in MK11 *spoilers*

User Info: bIuerain

bIuerain
3 weeks ago#121
90sNinja posted...
But all in all it's kinda irrelevant compared to the lootbox grind the game actually is which is conveniently being overshadowed by lunatics triggered by the fact their political opinions are unpopular. Hell if I made a game I'd fill it with whatever would be considered SJW just for the publicity you so happily provide.


absolutely Nailed It here
go team venture!

User Info: CVGuile

CVGuile
3 weeks ago#122
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
CVGuile posted...
A lot of people don't remember what "SJW" actually means or why the expression started showing up. It was intended to be sarcastic--a critique of armchair activists who talk a lot about "causes" but only understand the complexities in superficial ways and tell everyone what to do without actually doing meaningful good themselves. Calling someone like that a "social justice warrior" was the equivalent of calling someone "Einstein" after they do something stupid. It was a way to show they had no real interest in social justice and just wanted to posture.

Somewhere along the line this was forgotten and "SJW" started being used like it was some kind of loose organization or a specific brand of groupthink. I think a lot of the disconnect here is that there's a divide in what "SJW" is referring to. Because here's the thing--if someone is actually taking action based on their worldview and doing it in a way that has real world results, then by definition they aren't an SJW. They may be bad, they may be misguided, or they may even be malicious, but at that point they stopped being an armchair anything. There's no sarcasm element to calling someone a "warrior" when they're literally fighting for something.


Then they're social justice activists then, you're arguing semantics at this point.

No it's not semantics. Because, again, the whole point of calling someone a "social justice warrior" was to ironically point out that they are in fact not concerned with real social justice. They just want to posture. Real social justice is someone fighting for, say, equal protection under the law, the right to vote, an end to private for-profit prisons, accessible healthcare, police oversight, etc. Nobody calls Martin Luther King a "social justice warrior." The irony behind the sentiment fails in that case.
(edited 3 weeks ago)

User Info: Dark_Despair

Dark_Despair
3 weeks ago#123
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
Dark_Despair posted...
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
Depoinvil posted...
I personally love it. As a black man, I'd do the same thing if such a power was given to me. I'd say I'm surprised that this is upsetting people but who am I kidding...


That isn't the issue, the issue is the politics involved with making such an ending, especially when people in the world of MK, or Jax in particular have never dealt with any kind of racism before that would cause the ending to make sense.

Jax doesn't have a history of being woke or a part of BLM or anything, the ending just doesn't make sense giving the circumstances. Jax making a world great for those he knows such as friends and family would make sense sure, but possibly becoming a racist out of nowhere and possibly committing genocide doesn't seem to suit his character based on past games.


This type of history doesn't need to be established since it is a different person playing the role of Jax. I mean it shouldn't even be out of the realm of possibility to begin with but if Boon wants to make his universe fall in lock step with the events of the real world this shouldn't be an issue as soon as race is broached.


Except the world of MK is different than the world of reality. In the current timeline, Earth has been ravaged and at war with Outworld for about 20 years.

But sure, Jax has secretly been wanting to turn the world into Wakanda all these years and has been silent on the subject .

Also, I've shown other examples of the devs sticking politics into the game as well such as turning Shao Khan into Trump and covering all the women in Burkas.

Dont be obtuse, you know exactly what's going on here. If you enjoy the leftist propaganda fine, but dont pretend it isnt there, especially when I can turn on an official dev stream and see a dude with rainbow hair wearing a women's sweater, especially when I can read an interview where one of the devs is saying that the women are covered because fighting half naked is unrealistic but then see several dudes in the game half naked.


Leftist propaganda? It's not propaganda to acknowledge slavery and have it so that it never happened via a wish.

Boon can do whatever he want with his IP...and acting like it's unheard of that real world elements can't be mixed into a world of fiction is woefully ignorant.

Do you get this bent out of shape when the President of the US is black within the context of a TV show/movie?
PSN Gamer Tag: Murciealago229
Currently Playing: God of War, The Crew 2 and Spider-Man.

User Info: Dark_Despair

Dark_Despair
3 weeks ago#124
90sNinja posted...

Yeah that's character development, not "woops I decided this guy is a nice guy now".


Development in some respects and regression in other cases. Plus you really don't have an answer for Liu Kang; as he went from revered Champion to resurrected undead guy to playing around with the idea of a Face Heel turn. It's whatever Boon decides to do.

Then they can't really have a continuity, and yet they do. Remember MK9 (the reboot game) started with the presumably canon ending to Armageddon before the narrative went back in time to MK1-3.


There can also be different continuities aswell. This smacks of Boon not wanting to close the door on any possibility of his games being canonized based on outcomes. While not having played MK11 I did hear talks of different endings to the main story.

Oddly enough I've been saying for years that fighting games should give up on having a continuity (especially Mortal Kombat with all the killing) but EVEN IN that scenario you'd still expect characters to still be somewhat recognizable. If I boot up Street Fighter 15 and Ryu is a young hip city kid who thinks karate is lame but is somehow the best at it I'm going to be mad.


There's even less of a chance of that happening with SF. I mean seriously they are having so much trouble with design changes currently I doubt a reimagining of that sort would serve anyone. Ed Boon is not only constantly telling his team to redesign his characters to look more modern he's also not trying to shy away from aging them as needed.


"The characters are different every time, you can't argue this" are you high? If the characters are different every time what is the point of following your story? The only reason I give a crap about any ongoing stories is because I care about the characters, you throw that out the window I'm out too.


Again if you honestly say these are the same characters depicted even from the time they debuted, I would question your sanity. Don't worry about whether I am high; worry about why you're putting so much stock into a fighting game story as if it were a 400 page epic novel.

Boon can afford to retroactively go back and pull from the archives which would be his old games in this instance, it's only a matter of when.
PSN Gamer Tag: Murciealago229
Currently Playing: God of War, The Crew 2 and Spider-Man.

User Info: SSBR10

SSBR10
3 weeks ago#125
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
Except the world of MK is different than the world of reality. In the current timeline, Earth has been ravaged and at war with Outworld for about 20 years.


This doesn't change the fact that MK's Earth is clearly based on our own real-life Earth and therefore, likely shares the same history. Should I remind you that Wyatt Earp was even mentioned in one of the character intros in the game? So MK's Earth having some real-life history shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody.
Crossovers I want: PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale 2, Shonen Jump vs. Capcom, Mortal Kombat vs. Killer Instinct, and Tekken vs. Dead or Alive/Virtua Fighter
(edited 3 weeks ago)

User Info: 90sNinja

90sNinja
3 weeks ago#126
Dark_Despair posted...
Plus you really don't have an answer for Liu Kang; as he went from revered Champion to resurrected undead guy to playing around with the idea of a Face Heel turn. It's whatever Boon decides to do.


He felt betrayed by Raiden, it was pretty clear at the end of MK9.

Dark_Despair posted...
There can also be different continuities aswell. This smacks of Boon not wanting to close the door on any possibility of his games being canonized based on outcomes.


Then his story is worthless.

And this isn't even a retcon or anything like that because it's a non canon ending, it's that being a peacemonger is extremely out of character for Jax, at least from my perception, and no one is apparently interested in arguing that, just that the character can change anytime anybody wants them to, which sure but you devalue your own story that way. And more to the point, no other character is getting this criticism, cite racism if you want but no one's saying Kano or D'Vorah's endings are out of character.

Dark_Despair posted...

Again if you honestly say these are the same characters depicted even from the time they debuted, I would question your sanity


Up to now, even with the reboot and alternate universe nonsense, that's what they've been presented as. MK9 started at the end of Armageddeon, I forget how MKX started but all the revenant business clearly indicates it was meant to follow MK9's ending, and MK11 starts with Shinnok being tortured by Raiden over the amulet they were fighting over in X. These games' stories aren't being presented as the freeform Mad Max tall tales you seem to think they are, so I'm not sure why you expect me to treat them as such.

Dark_Despair posted...
Don't worry about whether I am high; worry about why you're putting so much stock into a fighting game story as if it were a 400 page epic novel.


Oh I see, the ol' "this topic is beneath me" bow out. Granted I've said a million times that this overall doesn't matter to me because I don't care about Jax's character, or non canon endings, but I do dislike bad writing and when it comes to a fiction that you would think the writers would want people to be invested in your defense is basically "eh it's all pretend". I wish I could be as enlightened: "why is this story bad?" "because the writers are dumb!" Very informative.

Although we seem to be in agreement at this point that MK's story is pretty garbage.
If life was meant to be easy, then everyone would be doing it.

User Info: bIuerain

bIuerain
3 weeks ago#127
CVGuile posted...
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
CVGuile posted...
A lot of people don't remember what "SJW" actually means or why the expression started showing up. It was intended to be sarcastic--a critique of armchair activists who talk a lot about "causes" but only understand the complexities in superficial ways and tell everyone what to do without actually doing meaningful good themselves. Calling someone like that a "social justice warrior" was the equivalent of calling someone "Einstein" after they do something stupid. It was a way to show they had no real interest in social justice and just wanted to posture.

Somewhere along the line this was forgotten and "SJW" started being used like it was some kind of loose organization or a specific brand of groupthink. I think a lot of the disconnect here is that there's a divide in what "SJW" is referring to. Because here's the thing--if someone is actually taking action based on their worldview and doing it in a way that has real world results, then by definition they aren't an SJW. They may be bad, they may be misguided, or they may even be malicious, but at that point they stopped being an armchair anything. There's no sarcasm element to calling someone a "warrior" when they're literally fighting for something.


Then they're social justice activists then, you're arguing semantics at this point.

No it's not semantics. Because, again, the whole point of calling someone a "social justice warrior" was to ironically point out that they are in fact not concerned with real social justice. They just want to posture. Real social justice is someone fighting for, say, equal protection under the law, the right to vote, an end to private for-profit prisons, accessible healthcare, police oversight, etc. Nobody calls Martin Luther King a "social justice warrior." The irony behind the sentiment fails in that case.


I really Nailed It with this post right here:

bIuerain posted...
In this topic, the acronym "SJW" stands for "anyone to the left of Ann Coulter."


This tends to happen when words get overused and thrown around, they lose their meaning. Words that used to have very specific meaning suddenly get used like they describe a broad spectrum.

Again, this happens on both sides here: the term "Neo-Nazi" gets thrown around a lot in modern political discourse. You would think this refers to one very specific type of person (a modern-day nazi, guys who wear swastikas, etc), but I see it the term get thrown around to the point that people just use it to mean "any far-right person."

Like, we have the one guy talking as if he believes "SJWs" are a traditional 20th-century political activist group and not this online-era insult. ITT SJW seems to mean "non-conservative." A lot of the posts ITT would start to make a lot more sense if they just said "liberal," which is what they actually mean anyways.
go team venture!
(edited 3 weeks ago)

User Info: 90sNinja

90sNinja
3 weeks ago#128
I thought SJWs were more associated with feminism than racial issues anyway, it was basically the new term for bra burning feminists.

What you did have back in the day was politicians claiming that sexuality or violence was bad, what we have now is the developers themselves claiming that, and to some, myself included, it definitely looks like they're doing it just for points. It is their choice in this scenario granted (outside from Sony demanding Japanese devs censor their games to get published, which is also their prerogative since it's their platform) but it's no less annoying to be moralized at over escapist entertainment. No one's playing MK for informative education on women's rights or police brutality or whatever.

That's not to say that you can't bring real world themes into a highly fictional world, it's just that most fighting game companies are pretty bad at it. If you wanted you could probably come up with some themes about the lack of rehabilitation prison actually has on violent criminals around Cody, but god knows Capcom wouldn't be able to pull it off
If life was meant to be easy, then everyone would be doing it.
(edited 3 weeks ago)

User Info: Lord_Shadow_19

Lord_Shadow_19
3 weeks ago#129
bIuerain posted...
I really Nailed It with this post right here:


No you didn't, go back to resisting Trump on 261.

SSBR10 posted...
This doesn't change the fact that MK's Earth is clearly based on our own real-life Earth and therefore, likely shares the same history. Should I remind you that Wyatt Earp was even mentioned in one of the character intros in the game? So MK's Earth having some real-life history shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody.


It isn't based on our Earth, there are lots of divergences that started 10000 years ago.

CVGuile posted...
No it's not semantics. Because, again, the whole point of calling someone a "social justice warrior" was to ironically point out that they are in fact not concerned with real social justice. They just want to posture. Real social justice is someone fighting for, say, equal protection under the law, the right to vote, an end to private for-profit prisons, accessible healthcare, police oversight, etc. Nobody calls Martin Luther King a "social justice warrior." The irony behind the sentiment fails in that case.


They aren't concerned with true social justice, they're concerned with virtue signaling and looking good on Twitter.

bIuerain posted...
It's not really "arguing semantics" when people ask that you use words correctly. Words have definitions.


It really is in this case though, especially when CVGuile has to focus on that rather than the content of what's being discussed.
Yang 2020

User Info: bIuerain

bIuerain
3 weeks ago#130
Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
No you didn't, go back to resisting Trump on 261.


"Please go away! Can't I just be left alone to shriek about white genocide every time I see picture of some black people without bloorain making fun of me??? 😢"

Lord_Shadow_19 posted...
It really is in this case though, especially when CVGuile has to focus on that rather than the content of what's being discussed.


Your entire premise hinges on you not understanding what words mean. Again, I really Nailed It up there. s***, you make it clear that CVG's post wooshed right over your head there, but I'll let him deal with that.
go team venture!
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  3. Jax isn't waiting centuries for people to get woke in MK11 *spoilers*