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  3. Shang Tsung and Noob Saibot confirmed for MK11, Tsung to be DLC.

User Info: CVGuile

CVGuile
3 weeks ago#31
90sNinja posted...
Pitaya posted...
Don't like it, don't want to support it? Then don't!


This isn't really a position, and it's annoying to see it paraded so much, especially since the obvious response is always "I won't" and then that's basically the whole conversation. (it's not a wrong opinion, it just kind of goes without saying, applied perfectly well to MvCI after all which I didn't like, didn't buy, and will happily continue to trash talk tyvm). I would be much more interested in hearing someone explain why DLC announced before launch is a good thing, at least that's an opinion of some substance and if you really want to be contrarian might as well go all the way.


Dark Symphony posted...
CVGuile posted...
I don't think you know how to read a room. I am the very last person on this board who would have predicted it to not have DLC. I'm the one who's been predicting games would follow this model and have been on the goddamn money each and every time. The fact that I'm making the decision now--at the time the announcement actually happened--should tell you what you need to know about how I operate.


YOU IRRATIONAL SILLY GUY! YOU WAIT UNTIL THINGS ARE CONFIRMED BEFORE MAKING DECISIONS!

Don't you know that if you made a topic on the first day the game was rumored to be coming out saying you hate it because of paid DLC everyone would have said "That is very reasonable of you."?

This is what's so maddening about these conversations. With some people there is effectively no avenue to talk about these topics. I make a prediction? Regardless of how well-reasoned it's always met with "wait and see!" I keep my mouth shut and wait for updates? It's "lol, what did you expect?" No matter what happens, the actual thing I'm talking about is off the table for discussion and instead the topic shifts to me and what I'm doing. Nobody wants to step up and defend the practice of introducing cool ass features, make it DLC, and then use it to advertise the base game. They might march out an "it's business" explanation but nobody ever wants to say it's a good thing. Because nobody does think it's a good thing. We're not even at odds here but it always turns into a fight anyway.

User Info: Pitaya

Pitaya
3 weeks ago#32
Wouldn't really call it a fight. Knee-jerk banter, at most. My apologies if I actually offended or upset anyone.

I dunno, I don't like DLC but I don't mind it, either. I was already gunning for the $100 edition with the first few DLC characters, because I already know I'm going to want to enter a few tournaments for the game and I'd might as well stay current with at least the first wave of DLC. Past that, who knows?
I solemnly swear that I aim to misbehave.

User Info: guedesbrawl

guedesbrawl
3 weeks ago#33
The only "good" reasons to invoke the DLC card before the game launches are to create hype for something off in the distance (Joker in smash, though it was basically announced at launch so I dunno) or to do damage control if a critical character is in the game but not yet playable. Shang does loosely fit into that. In general seeing characters around but not being able to use them is not nice, especially when they NEVER make it.

But I doubt we won't have many more Fujins in MK11 anyway so this point likely has no merit at the end of the day.

Of course, business-wise the good reason is getting the DLC money earlier because you just made season passes and such more desirable, and especially baiting people into getting the base game ASAP rather than waiting for the complete edition (and possibly getting that too). Which is lovely for them but not for anyone else.

Oh, and more headliners so other people advertise the game for the devs, like this very topic does. Unless TC is a dirty infiltrator...
My naruhina-oriented retelling of Naruto (currently has 362~K words/24 chapters): https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11577577/1/Because-I-Love-You-Chasing-After-You

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
3 weeks ago#34
"The game won't have everything in it" probably isn't a good headline and I don't know if it's actually confirmed with data that having a bunch of extra headlines about your game actually lead to more success. It might also depend on what the headlines are.

There is zero additional benefit to having held back content sold as DLC after launch outside of getting more money for the game. That is it. That is the only benefit. That you can sell your game for the base price and get more money later. Wait, and also that you can advertise additional content for the base game and get a few drinks off the confusion that all the post release content announcements cause since now outlets can talk about all this content as if it were monolithic because there's nothing illegal about a news site talking about how Shang Tsung is in MK11 when he's technically not.

User Info: guedesbrawl

guedesbrawl
3 weeks ago#35
Dark Symphony posted...
"The game won't have everything in it" probably isn't a good headline and I don't know if it's actually confirmed with data that having a bunch of extra headlines about your game actually lead to more success. It might also depend on what the headlines are.


The problem is that a lot of people don't see it as you quoted. For those that do, then it will never result in sales, but those that don't can still be impacted.

There's also the "benefit of doubt" argument but nobody knows for sure (outside of the devs themselves) how much work is still left to do between launch and the DLc going live. Is it 100% ready and just held back? Is it a buggy, unpolished mess that needs more time in the oven but on the outside looks fairly edible?

that is, assuming you can't just mod out the full character to see for yourself or, I dunno, shove them into story mode so we can see that they are actually ready.
My naruhina-oriented retelling of Naruto (currently has 362~K words/24 chapters): https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11577577/1/Because-I-Love-You-Chasing-After-You

User Info: Pitaya

Pitaya
3 weeks ago#36
I like to believe that they're going to take their time with the DLC. Past NRS games have definitely had DLC come out too quickly and, in turn, they're broken on launch. This was all over the place in MK9 and Injustice 1, though I don't think it was that bad in MKX and In2. I also like to believe that they're talking their time figuring out how they're going to make Shang Tsung work, namely transformations.

I'd definitely take this over him only showing up in the Krypt, especially since they went the extra mile to get Cary on board.
I solemnly swear that I aim to misbehave.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
3 weeks ago#37
That post above is straight mind boggling.

User Info: CVGuile

CVGuile
3 weeks ago#38
A lot of things have me by the balls. I hate how health insurance companies operate but I can't just opt out of that s***. I have to deal with banks and gas prices and student loans and no matter how much it may piss me off I don't have complete freedom to walk away. I enjoy being able to approach video games the way I do because it's one thing that I don't have to eat s*** over. I can choose to not play. I can choose to obtain a copy second hand. But it's also a hobby I like so I don't want to abandon it. But I don't like when that hobby weaponizes my enjoyment against me.

For example...

Pitaya posted...
because I already know I'm going to want to enter a few tournaments for the game and I'd might as well stay current with at least the first wave of DLC. Past that, who knows?

Yeah, I'd like to, as well. I'd like to stay current. I'd like to enter a few tournaments. Shang Tsung makes me want the game even more than I did. But fandom stops being fun when it feels like you're being preyed on for it. Doing all those things now feels like a security vulnerability--the bigger a fan you are the more attempted breaches you have to fend off. I opt out of DLC just fine but that doesn't mean I like staring at greyed out boxes on the character select screen that when highlighted say "Press X to buy." That feels like getting a robocall every time I play.
(edited 3 weeks ago)

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
3 weeks ago#39
I just don't know why people, gamers especially, are so prone to thinking in binaries. "If we don't do always online how can we deliver you content updates?" says company. "Hey, I'd rather be able to expand my game or get bug fixes than be stuck with what I got at launch!" says the entranced gamer, standing in front of his Warcraft 3 Frozen Throne for PC box on his shelf next to his Super Street Fighter 4 poster.

User Info: CVGuile

CVGuile
3 weeks ago#40
It's a political trick. You identify a problem and position your solution as if it's the only option and can then accuse anyone who disagrees with your proposal as not caring enough about the problem. "Why wouldn't you want a wall? Do you not care about border security?"

With video games you get the added bonus of complacency. I think people actually do know that they're being had. They know that games routinely suck at launch. They know that the nickel and diming schemes annoy them. We see in right in this thread where everyone hates that DLC is being used to market the base game. But then they defend it when someone like me comes along and rips it a new one because in the end they just want the games they've already become invested in and if I get my way those games either come in a different, unknown form or don't happen at all. People would rather accept the s*** end of the stick for something that they've already seen in action than entertain these alternatives.

And on some level I get it. The message people hear from me is something like "If we sacrifice games X, Y, and Z--games that you've already seen and enjoy--then we'll potentially see a benefit down the line." People are naturally going to resist that. And they'll especially resist if "no more games in franchise X" or "publisher Y goes bankrupt" are consequences. And they'll especially hate me or think I'm just plain batty if I call those consequences a potential good. It takes a certain level of forward thinking and a healthy distance from the hobby to entertain any of this. People who are happy to live in the moment and enjoy whatever games come down the pipeline and aren't especially interested in watching it all burn are not going to like me very much.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
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