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User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#111
Yet(?)

I think that dovetails into my point. People don't want to play those odds. Your CEO example is a key one because businesses do capitulate to public outcry sometimes even when they know it's BS. Some people don't want to play the odds or be the martyr. It doesn't matter if Haradasanz hasn't been a target, the question is whether someone in his position thinks he or she will be.

Tekken, DOA, Captain Marvel; all franchises with history and staying power. But the people behind them likely don't feel as indispensable. And they aren't. Their concern isn't that a franchise will fade away, their concern is that something will happen to them. And people have a tendency to want to do the right thing which gets exploited constantly. An employer hears a bunch of people calling one of his employees racist can be very rational but still think the allegations have merit due to the volume of the noise.

A person on Noel Brown's situation has one good option: say nothing. But that's because everyone instantly hated him and wanted him gone. I wonder if things would have been different had a faux window of salvation in the form of a public apology had been opened for him to avoid punishment.Johnny Blaque posted...
CVGuile posted...
. The purse clutching over what hypothetically could happen can only make it more likely to happen.


This the entire crux of it. I've have been saying this for years and it all boils down to this. Going all the way back to Sarkesisian or Gamergate or Kotaku articles or whatever. People taking the clickbait and getting outraged over whatever silly s*** a SJW yahoo said just gave more power to the SJWs in the form of sympathy from regular people. Some lady saying "I think there should be more women in gaming" or whatever shouldn't be followed with "shut up b****! You are trying to RUIN gaming!". Any reasonable response to the original statement will be lost in the shuffle of comments about people treating this way too seriously and talking like they are losing a battle. Onlookers will side with the person disproportionately getting yelled at.


This is a trash post but very necessary to the discussion. "I think there should be more (insert class) in gaming" wasn't a new notion in 2012 yet that time it was a big deal. It was a big deal because it wasn't an innocent plea for more women in gaming, it was an indictment of the industry and its patrons. One that cast moral aspersions at people and attempted to speak for people's inner thoughts. But here you are either mischaracterizing it or being woefully ignorant about it. That leads to frustration, fear and backlash. People know when they're being taken for a ride. Those weren't aggressive responses, they were defensive (and poorly plotted). Generally speaking.

Resentment continues to build because posts like yours show that the actual reality of the situation hasn't won out. There will always (rightfully) be backlash whenever basic selfishness (which isn't bad on its face) is painted as moral superiority, selflessness and innocent humanitarianism. That crap sucks and makes people crazy.

I have more in response to some other things brought up lately but don't have the time right now.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#112
Quoting strikes me again.

User Info: Johnny Blaque

Johnny Blaque
1 month ago#113
Dark Symphony posted...
This is a trash post but very necessary to the discussion. "I think there should be more (insert class) in gaming" wasn't a new notion in 2012 yet that time it was a big deal. It was a big deal because it wasn't an innocent plea for more women in gaming, it was an indictment of the industry and its patrons. One that cast moral aspersions at people and attempted to speak for people's inner thoughts. But here you are either mischaracterizing it or being woefully ignorant about it. That leads to frustration, fear and backlash. People know when they're being taken for a ride. Those weren't aggressive responses, they were defensive (and poorly plotted). Generally speaking.


I've stated it for what it was. We all remember it. And people kept clicking those articles, kept sharing them around, whipped themselves up into a ferver of defensive and poorly plotted posts. And yes, the worst ones were aggressive. They were defensive when they should have just ignored.

Dark Symphony posted...
Resentment continues to build because posts like yours show that the actual reality of the situation hasn't won out. There will always (rightfully) be backlash whenever basic selfishness (which isn't bad on its face) is painted as moral superiority, selflessness and innocent humanitarianism. That crap sucks and makes people crazy.



And this is why your post is garbage. You are already so defensive and looking for a fight that because I didn't go into detail on how wrong Kotaku was, you put me on their side. The reality of the situation is ongoing. It's people like you who will never stop being ruled by fear and fueling said fear that you will always be blinded to it. Basically you agree with everything CVGuile says but the one point you refuse to budge on is to continue to be ruled by fear.

This Harada situation may actually escalate thanks to trolls and idiots hyping it up to the point where he may say the dreaded words(according to the PS4 board), "Don't Like It Don't Buy It." Will that make him "woke" in some users eyes and thus he deserves to "go broke"?

User Info: STEROLIZER

STEROLIZER
1 month ago#114
Johnny Blaque posted...
Dark Symphony posted...
This is a trash post but very necessary to the discussion. "I think there should be more (insert class) in gaming" wasn't a new notion in 2012 yet that time it was a big deal. It was a big deal because it wasn't an innocent plea for more women in gaming, it was an indictment of the industry and its patrons. One that cast moral aspersions at people and attempted to speak for people's inner thoughts. But here you are either mischaracterizing it or being woefully ignorant about it. That leads to frustration, fear and backlash. People know when they're being taken for a ride. Those weren't aggressive responses, they were defensive (and poorly plotted). Generally speaking.


I've stated it for what it was. We all remember it. And people kept clicking those articles, kept sharing them around, whipped themselves up into a ferver of defensive and poorly plotted posts. And yes, the worst ones were aggressive. They were defensive when they should have just ignored.

Dark Symphony posted...
Resentment continues to build because posts like yours show that the actual reality of the situation hasn't won out. There will always (rightfully) be backlash whenever basic selfishness (which isn't bad on its face) is painted as moral superiority, selflessness and innocent humanitarianism. That crap sucks and makes people crazy.



And this is why your post is garbage. You are already so defensive and looking for a fight that because I didn't go into detail on how wrong Kotaku was, you put me on their side. The reality of the situation is ongoing. It's people like you who will never stop being ruled by fear and fueling said fear that you will always be blinded to it. Basically you agree with everything CVGuile says but the one point you refuse to budge on is to continue to be ruled by fear.

This Harada situation may actually escalate thanks to trolls and idiots hyping it up to the point where he may say the dreaded words(according to the PS4 board), "Don't Like It Don't Buy It." Will that make him "woke" in some users eyes and thus he deserves to "go broke"?


Garbage he says. He must be one of them Tekken boys that @Dark_Symphony bodied!
---./|,-``\(o)_\,----,,,_........................Love is like a bottle of gin
---( `\(o),,_/` : o : : :o `-,..............But a bottle of gin is not like love.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#115
Johnny Blaque posted...
And this is why your post is garbage. You are already so defensive and looking for a fight that because I didn't go into detail on how wrong Kotaku was, you put me on their side. The reality of the situation is ongoing. It's people like you who will never stop being ruled by fear and fueling said fear that you will always be blinded to it. Basically you agree with everything CVGuile says but the one point you refuse to budge on is to continue to be ruled by fear.

This Harada situation may actually escalate thanks to trolls and idiots hyping it up to the point where he may say the dreaded words(according to the PS4 board), "Don't Like It Don't Buy It." Will that make him "woke" in some users eyes and thus he deserves to "go broke?"


My post was not garbage. It was correct. Your goofy shaming tactics ("ur getting defensive") don't change the reality. It's natural to be defensive and agitated when you read something written that is stupid. I will not apologize for that.

You mischaracterized something. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was accidental but it's a frusturating situation nonetheless and the entire core of my point in this topic which it seems you haven't read in its entirety.

The kinds of mischaracterizations you employed are what people want to avoid. It is not unreasonable for them to want to avoid it. You can go hyperbolic and call it being "ruled by fear" but it's actually a pragmatism akin to a business cutting its losses and firing a controversial employee who may not be all that bad.

I never agreed that giving in or engaging was the answer. I've been highlighting that I UNDERSTAND why people take that road. Wild mischaracterizations like what you demonstrated are a big and frustrating reason. That's why your post was trash. It reads very dishonestly.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#116
Franchises may be resilient and be established enough to risk the mov but the people behind them may not be and it's a really tough sell to tell someone to take the risk for the greater good.

User Info: Johnny Blaque

Johnny Blaque
1 month ago#117
Dark Symphony posted...
Johnny Blaque posted...
And this is why your post is garbage. You are already so defensive and looking for a fight that because I didn't go into detail on how wrong Kotaku was, you put me on their side. The reality of the situation is ongoing. It's people like you who will never stop being ruled by fear and fueling said fear that you will always be blinded to it. Basically you agree with everything CVGuile says but the one point you refuse to budge on is to continue to be ruled by fear.

This Harada situation may actually escalate thanks to trolls and idiots hyping it up to the point where he may say the dreaded words(according to the PS4 board), "Don't Like It Don't Buy It." Will that make him "woke" in some users eyes and thus he deserves to "go broke?"


My post was not garbage. It was correct. Your goofy shaming tactics ("ur getting defensive") don't change the reality. It's natural to be defensive and agitated when you read something written that is stupid. I will not apologize for that.

You mischaracterized something. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was accidental but it's a frusturating situation nonetheless and the entire core of my point in this topic which it seems you haven't read in its entirety.

The kinds of mischaracterizations you employed are what people want to avoid. It is not unreasonable for them to want to avoid it. You can go hyperbolic and call it being "ruled by fear" but it's actually a pragmatism akin to a business cutting its losses and firing a controversial employee who may not be all that bad.

I never agreed that giving in or engaging was the answer. I've been highlighting that I UNDERSTAND why people take that road. Wild mischaracterizations like what you demonstrated are a big and frustrating reason. That's why your post was trash. It reads very dishonestly.


You really should not get defensive when you realize it's just one opinion. Knee-jerk reactions have clearly not been working so far. I've been arguing for a measured response thus entire time. Not some stuff like the extreme hypothetical like Harada posted. That is not how you beat the outrage mob. I'm fine with Harada being sassy with customers but this response was just stupid.

As for mischaracterizations you spreading lies about Shkreli literally being JAILED for pissing off "the mob" was in bad faith and reframing some unrelated thing to empower your weak argument. To your credit you did admit to being wrong about that. I've never reframed the argument, simply stated things as they were. But I clearly see you seem smart enough to realize when things are bait but stubborn enough to bite anyways and proud enough to never regret it. I'm not going to have any more to add to this discourse and I have a feeling we are going down the path of you screaming "ur the real problem!" lol.

User Info: CVGuile

CVGuile
1 month ago#118
Dark Symphony posted...
Franchises may be resilient and be established enough to risk the mov but the people behind them may not be and it's a really tough sell to tell someone to take the risk for the greater good.

But where does Harada fit into this? He was never in a position to "take the risk" in the first place. Nobody is asking him to steel himself. It's not like he got wrapped up in a bad situation and picked one of a handful of possible avenues to escape from it and now we're telling him what he should have done instead. There is no viking in Tekken. There was never any talk about a viking in Tekken. I don't think anyone would have even thought a viking was within the nexus of SJW rebuke. Advising someone to not unnecessarily seek the attention of the very people he's afraid of attracting--totally unprompted, mind you--is different than asking him to take one for the team.
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: Lord_Shadow_19

Lord_Shadow_19
1 month ago#119
CVGuile posted...
Dark Symphony posted...
Franchises may be resilient and be established enough to risk the mov but the people behind them may not be and it's a really tough sell to tell someone to take the risk for the greater good.

But where does Harada fit into this? He was never in a position to "take the risk" in the first place. Nobody is asking him to steel himself. It's not like he got wrapped up in a bad situation and picked one of a handful of possible avenues to escape from it and now we're telling him what he should have done instead. There is no viking in Tekken. There was never any talk about a viking in Tekken. I don't think anyone would have even thought a viking was within the nexus of SJW rebuke. Advising someone to not unnecessarily seek the attention of the very people he's afraid of attracting--totally unprompted, mind you--is different than asking him to take one for the team.


Maybe he simply doesnt like SJWs.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

User Info: CVGuile

CVGuile
1 month ago#120
He clearly doesn't. But that's neither here nor there.

CVGuile posted...
The flipside is James Gunn. Disney didn't give him his job back but people thought that the penalty for his offense was a bridge too far and not only was there a minor revolt by the principal cast of Guardians of the Galaxy, another high profile director declined to replace him in solidarity. The result is that it's entirely possible there won't be a third movie as planned.

Weird coincidence but the news just broke today that James Gunn was rehired. I think that solidifies my point that the support network is the key element. It can either allow bad guys to continue their enterprises or reverse injustices by putting pressure where it needs to be. The big question mark is you never know what direction that wind is going to blow.
(edited 1 month ago)
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