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  3. Capcom needs to go back to the drawing board of what made SFIV successful.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#21
KillerKhan420 posted...
Lord_Wombat posted...
KillerKhan420 posted...
Casuals won't stick around for years for a game to get completed, and they don't like all the dlc either.

Idk, judging from MKX, SCVI, Smash, and DBFZ, "casuals" seem to stick to their games as much or even more than some "hardcore" players.

Obviously most people b**** about the DLC, but considering the online playerbase swells every time new content is released (Tekken 7, SFV, and again DBFZ to make a few recent examples), it makes me wonder if they're really as against the practice as they claim to be.


The games you listed had substantial rosters upon release. Sf5 had a measly 16, and among the dlc are character staples like sagat, guile, balrog, blanka, Sakura.... characters that were free in just the last iteration.


I'm half on board. I don't think 16 is "measly." I think that's what SF4 started out with in Arcades. Yeah it was 20 on console (or around there) but I doubt those millions of sales would have been stifled by 4 less characters. Selling back old characters is stupid, though. I didn't even think of how stupid it was myself. Someone on this board pointed out how it just felt wrong to them to have to buy back or earn old characters. One could get technical about why that's silly but luxury purchasing decisions aren't always (actually they are rarely) driven by sterile, technical reasoning.

The "small" roster of SFV was simply spotlighted and exacerbated by the lack of other staple offerings alongside a number of gacha game style design decisions.

Shinobi120 posted...
Don't forget about other games like SoulCalibur II & Virtua Fighter 4 in huge popularity. Plus MK & KOF still kept going.


VF4 and "huge popularity" just don't mesh well in my mind. Was it really that popular? I only knew one person in the real world who owned it and he's typing right now.

User Info: Will Smith

Will Smith
1 month ago#22
SFIV had a perfect storm that led to it's success and mainstream popularity:

- Capcom having a nine year hiatus publishing a new game in the Street Fighter franchise

- it was sequel (prequel TBQH) in the main SF series, not a spinoff

- shiny new 3D grafx!! (Which was already done in the SFEX series)

- online gameplay

- the game was marketed heavily and had Ono as a mascot with an excellent PR team (extremely important)

- being released in the early life of relatively new popular consoles (PS3, X360)

- arcade and home ports being largely popular and each receiving well timed updates

Etc

The only way SFVI could even come close to replicating SFIV's success would be to go on a second hiatus from developing fighting games (which they honestly should do since they have been pumping out garbage after UMVC3).

On the flip side it would be easier than ever for competitors to take over. ASW was still quite a niche developer in 2008, but they hold serious clout now, definitely in the Top 5 of fighting game devs. MK is getting bigger and making steps to improve. Smash is getting more of a fanbase. Capcom might not be relevant enough to make SFVI a success outside of the Capcom centric circles (which are also slowly losing momentum)...

User Info: jky7702

jky7702
1 month ago#23
First thing fire Ono.

Then fire all character designers and art team.

They need to really change it up with SF6, like the change from Fatal Fury to Garou. An evolution, maybe Ryus son is in the game and otuer connections like that. If your bringing back classic characters they need a new angle or new look and make it actually look cool not worse than original design.

It needs tp be fresh, new ideas, new looks.

User Info: 90sNinja

90sNinja
1 month ago#24
bvillebro posted...
And fight money is actually fine and a great idea, its just capcom turned into stingy bastards and removed so much of the access to fight money


The problem with fight money is it's based on a F2P model, where you make small amounts for playing a lot, to entice you to pay real money for it (although I don't think they ever went that far in SFV, which is funny because I basically can't even buy Kage with real money at this point). All well and good for a F2P game where I can decide as I'm playing how much I want to invest, not so much for something I've already paid for.

The only thing Capcom did to it was lower the payouts and remove a lot of the one time drops that the big money comes from. In Tekken or MK the currency is a progression checkpoint and there's no limit to how much you can earn (and more to the point, I've never booted up a game of either because I have to do my daily tasks to receive my rations, although MKX had daily missions for factions), in SFV it's a severely controlled economy.
If life was meant to be easy, then everyone would be doing it.

User Info: Vegeta1000

Vegeta1000
1 month ago#25
Dark Symphony posted...


VF4 and "huge popularity" just don't mesh well in my mind. Was it really that popular? I only knew one person in the real world who owned it and he's typing right now.


Virtua Fighter 4 sold over a million on the PS2. Nowhere near Tekken 5 or even SoulCalibur II, but still good considering only two Virtua Fighter games have sold over a million (the other was Virtua Fighter 2).
"When he at the mic you don't go next" MF DOOM
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(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: Bass_X0

Bass_X0
1 month ago#26
KillerKhan420 posted...
Casuals won't stick around for years for a game to get completed, and they don't like all the dlc either. They really blew it with 5, it's gameplay also is subpar.

30/mid 30 character roster, with a little of something for everybody and standard modes for a fighting game plus the online.


Those same casuals think nothing of dropping dollars on a freemium mobile game.
"Well, it's not a bad game. It's made by Capcom, so how could it?" ~ AVGN

User Info: DreamwingNero

DreamwingNero
1 month ago#27
Wasn't the first sf4 not that great after the hype died down (in hindsight - sagat OP and they released a patch quickly)?

Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. The arcade edition release was it's peak popularity (entrant numbers) iirc.

Reminds me of SF5 it had gameplay problems on release (SF4 took longer to reach this conclusion as people were more hyped and naive unlike today), on top of being bare-bones too. It's actually surprising how SF5 is still here despite the hate it gets (justifiably I guess?), mediocre sales nowhere near Capcom's sales expectations, constant gameplay criticisms, but it does get tons of push from Capcom as an e-sports title.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#28
Vegeta1000 posted...
Dark Symphony posted...


VF4 and "huge popularity" just don't mesh well in my mind. Was it really that popular? I only knew one person in the real world who owned it and he's typing right now.


Virtua Fighter 4 sold over a million on the PS2. Nowhere near Tekken 5 or even SoulCalibur II, but still good considering only two Virtua Fighter games have sold over a million (the other was Virtua Fighter 2).


Good insight. Thanks.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#29
Bass_X0 posted...
KillerKhan420 posted...
Casuals won't stick around for years for a game to get completed, and they don't like all the dlc either. They really blew it with 5, it's gameplay also is subpar.

30/mid 30 character roster, with a little of something for everybody and standard modes for a fighting game plus the online.


Those same casuals think nothing of dropping dollars on a freemium mobile game.


Untrue. Generally speaking.

User Info: DemonCurse69

DemonCurse69
1 month ago#30
DreamwingNero posted...
Wasn't the first sf4 not that great after the hype died down (in hindsight - sagat OP and they released a patch quickly)?

Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong. The arcade edition release was it's peak popularity (entrant numbers) iirc.

Reminds me of SF5 it had gameplay problems on release (SF4 took longer to reach this conclusion as people were more hyped and naive unlike today), on top of being bare-bones too. It's actually surprising how SF5 is still here despite the hate it gets (justifiably I guess?), mediocre sales nowhere near Capcom's sales expectations, constant gameplay criticisms, but it does get tons of push from Capcom as an e-sports title.

SF4 was more fun and still had some semblance of neutral. Different playstyles were viable, not just frame traps and tick throws. There were many offensive options but just as many defensive ones to counter it. Combofiend pretty much insulted our intelligence by saying SF4 was too setplay dominant and not real Street Fighter and then releasing SF5 which completely destroyed neutral and is nothing but setplay. Also, even though it's been fixed, input lag was a serious issue for 5 and something people mentioned since day 1.
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