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  3. So Disney's Hercules copied a lot from Superman

User Info: theRedDeath

theRedDeath
3 years ago#31
This is all a post I made on the Toonzone DC animation board back in 2011:

In the recent “All Star Superman” commentary, writer Grant Morrison mentions Disney’s Hercules as one of his favorite “Superhero” films. I always thought of that film as a Superman analogue as a child, but I never really expected anyone else to see it that way too. Let alone a professional like Morrison. Forgive the enormous post, but for those interested I’ll try to diagram here how “Disney’s Hercules” can actually be seen as a very accurate analogue of DC comic’s Superman. (Obviously Superman is actually inspired by the mythical Hercules, not the other way around. This topic is referring specifically to Disney’s Hercules, which came out in 1997.)

*Spoilers for Hercules*

Immediately comparisons can be drawn between Hercules’ “Olympus” and Superman’s home planet of “Krypton”. Both are the extra-ordinary places of origin for the main hero, explaining the hero’s inhuman strength. Both Hercules and Kal-El are sent to Earth from this other world, and as such Zeus is a stand in for “Jor El”; Superman’s Kryptonian father. The difference is Hercules was taken from Olympus by force, while Superman was sent from Krypton prior to its destruction. From there Hercules is taken in and adopted by a modest farmer couple, exactly like Superman who was raised as Clark Kent. Both sets of parents withhold the child’s true origins from them, and both Hercules and Clark grow up in a world where they feel isolated and confused by their extraordinary powers. Until eventually the parents reveal the nature of the child’s adoption. Where Hercules was shown the medallion of the Gods, Superman was shown his own spaceship (Depending on the version of Superman’s origin.)

Hercules then goes to the temple of Zeus, where he learns the truth about who he is. Similarly Superman uses the technology from his ship to create the “Fortress of Solitude”. Just as everything is explained to Hercules by the statue of his father Zeus, so too does the simulation of Jor-El speak to Superman.

The female love interest for Hercules is Megara, who is a very similar female character to DC’s Lois Lane. In the movie, Megara’s personal story-arc is very different to Lois’ typical reporter role, but the two characters’ personalities are nearly interchangeable. Just as Superman needs a strong confident female to anchor him to the human world, so does Hercules. Both Superman and Hercules fall in love with a woman who compliments their physical strength with her own strength of character. Throughout the film Megara even constantly refers to Hercules as “Wonderboy”, giving him an alternate superhero “codename”, just as like Lois Lane was the one who gave Kal-El the name “Superman.”

Even the role of Pegasus in the film is comparable to Superman’s dog “Krypto”. Both are flying white haired animal companions, and are an example of a lasting remnant and link to the hero’s lost world of origin. Filling a void in the hero of loneliness and a longing to be with others like themselves.

Throughout the film Hercules battles many incidental monster enemies, building a name for himself as a great and famous hero in the film’s world. Like Hercules, Superman has battled countless comic book villains, and has built a reputation for himself as one of the greatest heroes of all time.

Cont below:
Death comes for us all Oroku Saki, but something far worse comes for you. For when you die, it will be....without honor. -Master Splinter

User Info: theRedDeath

theRedDeath
3 years ago#32
Cont from above:

In the film the main antagonist is the God Hades, who’s very charismatic portrayal by James Woods makes it seem difficult to place in Superman’s list of rogues (especially since there IS a Hades in DC continuity), but when you look at Hades’ place and motivation with the film his analogue becomes clear. Hades resides over the realm of “Hades” against his will, given that position by Zeus. It’s Hades’ hatred for Zeus, and his desire to “escape” the world of the dead, that propels the film. Looking at Hades the realm as a stand-in for the “Phantom Zone”, it becomes clear that Hades can be an analogue of Superman’s foe General Zod. General Zod, also a Kryptonian just as Hades is also a God, only hates Superman because of Zod’s hatred of Superman’s father Jor-El. Both Hercules and Superman stand in the way of their foe’s specific ambitions of obtaining power, but the underlying tension between them is due to the villain’s feeling toward the heroes’ fathers.

In the climax of the film, Hades manipulates Hercules into giving up his strength for a day, and forcing him to battle the Cyclops as a mortal man. This kind of plotline is prevalent in many Superman stories, where Superman is robbed of his powers either through Kryptonite or red-solar radiation, and he must fight the villain powerless. This is a literary tactic to create a sense of sympathy for the audience, and show them that the hero’s valor comes from their own character rather than from their super human powers.

Beyond the plot points of the film, Hercules and Superman share many other cosmetic similarities. Hercules’ adult design in the film includes a powerful chin, a cape, and even a split “S” curl in his hair. Hercules also wears the medallion of the Gods on his belt as part of his armor. That medallion is a cloud and thunderbolt, which is the symbol of his father Zeus. Superman’s “S” shield is actually the family crest of the house of “El” (“El” which is Hebrew for “of God” by the way). So both Hercules and Superman wear their family crest as part of their permanent costume.

There are certainly differences between the two properties, namely Krypton being destroyed and Superman’s motivation is not to somehow reclaim his place there, though by the end of the film Hercules does decide to remain on Earth to be with Meg. Another key difference is Superman’s vulnerability to Kryptonite (which is a much more clear comparison to Achilles, who is mentioned in the film) and how a major plot point of the film was that Hercules had no such blatant weakness. All in all though I would say that “Disney’s Hercules” is a surprisingly consistent analogy for DC’s Superman. In my opinion it is one of Disney’s last great animated films, and I should only hope that WB themselves can one day make an animated Superman film of that caliber. If there’s anything this proves, it’s that there is no reason why Superman’s story cannot be as meaningful, magical, or resonating with young people as Disney has accomplished with “Hercules.”

---
Death comes for us all Oroku Saki, but something far worse comes for you. For when you die, it will be....without honor. -Master Splinter

User Info: TheRealKal-El

TheRealKal-El
3 years ago#33
theRedDeath posted...
Throughout the film Megara even constantly refers to Hercules as “Wonderboy”, giving him an alternate superhero “codename”, just as like Lois Lane was the one who gave Kal-El the name “Superman.”


I'm sad you said this and not that Lois calls Clark "Smallville" in the same sarcastic manner Megara called Hercules "Wonderboy".

Other than that, your posts were perfect and my exact opinion too.

*Church of Kal-El group hug*
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User Info: Wario_man

Wario_man
3 years ago#34
That and they both had the same voice actress...
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User Info: OldFrenchDragon

OldFrenchDragon
3 years ago#35
TheRealKal-El posted...

It's like you entirely missed the point of the movie.

Also, gee, it's a Disney movie, did you also expect them to feature rape and murder from the myths?


I expect better than a dumb idiot with big ears being more obsessed with fame and merchandising than being a true hero.
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User Info: Antiyonder

Antiyonder
3 years ago#36
OldFrenchDragon posted...
TheRealKal-El posted...

It's like you entirely missed the point of the movie.

Also, gee, it's a Disney movie, did you also expect them to feature rape and murder from the myths?


I expect better than a dumb idiot with big ears being more obsessed with fame and merchandising than being a true hero.


Except that was the point of the movie. For Herc to learn that fame and merchandising doesn't make one a true hero.

User Info: OldFrenchDragon

OldFrenchDragon
3 years ago#37
Antiyonder posted...
OldFrenchDragon posted...
TheRealKal-El posted...

It's like you entirely missed the point of the movie.

Also, gee, it's a Disney movie, did you also expect them to feature rape and murder from the myths?


I expect better than a dumb idiot with big ears being more obsessed with fame and merchandising than being a true hero.


Except that was the point of the movie. For Herc to learn that fame and merchandising doesn't make one a true hero.


The real one Heraclès or Superman never need to learn that lesson to begin with.
http://www.radiohead.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/charlie.jpg
"Je prefere mourir debout que vivre a genoux" Charb RIP

User Info: OhGood

OhGood
3 years ago#38
This topic just makes me excited for the new Hercules comic
Everything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant

User Info: Raiu

Raiu
3 years ago#39
OldFrenchDragon posted...
Antiyonder posted...
OldFrenchDragon posted...
TheRealKal-El posted...

It's like you entirely missed the point of the movie.

Also, gee, it's a Disney movie, did you also expect them to feature rape and murder from the myths?


I expect better than a dumb idiot with big ears being more obsessed with fame and merchandising than being a true hero.


Except that was the point of the movie. For Herc to learn that fame and merchandising doesn't make one a true hero.


The real one Heraclès or Superman never need to learn that lesson to begin with.


Yeah, the "real" Heracles had to learn the lesson "Don't go into a berserker rage and murder your entire family, or you'll be reduced to cleaning up horse poop", which would not make for a great children's film.
-Raiutaryuu-

User Info: OldFrenchDragon

OldFrenchDragon
3 years ago#40
Raiu posted...
Yeah, the "real" Heracles had to learn the lesson "Don't go into a berserker rage and murder your entire family, or you'll be reduced to cleaning up horse poop", which would not make for a great children's film.


That's your opinion on the matter .I accept it yet disagree with it.

A film with Heraklès kicking some unvulnerable lion ass,slaying hydra and one upping a corrupt king and his wicked Goddess stepmother only to die in a selfless humble sacrifice would have done the trick for me.

Not the watered down inaccurate, PC kiddie version with dumbass "hero coach" sidekick stupid stubborn pegasus and sassy treacherous girlfriend "loving parents" Zeus and Hera and used car salesman eeeevil Hades and intrusive musical numbers and dumbass me famous me merchandising crap funny anachronism jokes crap.

Next you gonna post:

Did you ever watch the movie ?Rethoric.More it's Disney argumentation.More sassiness.

To you.

PS You enjoyed the movie just plain keep enjoy it ,there is nothing wrong with that,don't let a different point of view bother you okay?
http://www.radiohead.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/charlie.jpg
"Je prefere mourir debout que vivre a genoux" Charb RIP
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