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  3. F2P and Beginners Guide To FEH Arena

User Info: gwwak

gwwak
10 months ago#71
Tag
Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this...
Come visit The Range http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1003-

User Info: Sad_Face

Sad_Face
10 months ago#72
I love how this game is almost 2 years old and the strategy of "Just use Hector bro" still being thrown out there. The "Choosing your core" section is the most important part of an Arena guide yet I found it was poorly done as it boiled down to use Armors (Legendary Armor? Even better!), which is the stereotype of the upper arena; using Armors for their high BST totals.
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(edited 10 months ago)

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
10 months ago#73
@Sad_Face posted...
I love how this game is almost 2 years old and the strategy of "Just use Hector bro" still being thrown out there. The "Choosing your core" section is the most important part of an Arena guide yet I found it was poorly done as it boiled down to use Armors (Legendary Armor? Even better!), which is the stereotype of the upper arena; using Armors for their high BST totals.


Sorry to hear that you feel that way. I intentionally preluded the 'choose your core section' with goal setting and resource management, to help players identify their goals and understand resource allocation prior to deciding what sort of core they would like to use. Depending on someone's goal, they do not need to include armours in their core, however if you want to reach and stay in the highest tiers then high BST units, particularly legendary heroes, are one of the best ways to do that due to the arena scoring formula. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about that?

I reference my core as an example for continuity through out the article, and yes it does include Hector, another armour unit (Sheena), and an infantry unit (M!Corrin).

I do appreciate the criticism since it will help me to write better guides in the future. How would you have structured the 'Choose your core section'?
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User Info: Sad_Face

Sad_Face
10 months ago#74
chunkyshtew posted...
I do appreciate the criticism since it will help me to write better guides in the future. How would you have structured the 'Choose your core section'?


Team building is easily the most difficult and nuanced part of Heroes. It's even more difficult when you try to play with your favorites and they're weak to the major arena threats or have no synergy. I can't tell you how to structure your Choose you core section (I'd want to restructure the entire thing to be honest) but if I were a newbie and more importantly I wanted to use my favorites, I'd be interested in what makes a good team (and not just one team because there is more than one way to skin a cat) and what are the meta threats to look out for.

And mind you, different Tiers have different threats. T17 and below, expect every team you face to run Rein/B!Lyn/Dancer and now maybe Veronica. T18 is where you start seeing bootleg Armor teams, and more diversity and T20 is Armor city. This is important because some strategies taper off as you go up the tier ladder. I ran TARaven Lilina initially and it wasn't cutting it in T19 because enemies were too strong so I had to switch to Bladetome (this was before her refine). If I were to get lazy and drop down from 18.5 to T17, I'd switch back TARaven because Lyn GALORE.

I'd also want to know what scores defense wins and this is where you'd have a subsection on either using your arena core or having a specific defense team and the strategies to secure a defense win.

As a guide writer, you need to do your research on what the average F2Player's tier rating is looking like and what prevents them from moving up. I can tell you that there was a popular Reddit thread where people were complaining about the Arena but when probed, you find out that they are no higher than T17. Why is that? Probing further, their teams weren't fully built. C skill slots untouched, Sacred Seal slots not fully thought out, characters wholly unoptimized. It's no wonder they weren't getting to the top. Looking at your guide, would they have been able to diagnose the problem?

You talk about setting goals, but that's what people normally do. If they're coming up into this topic, you can bet they want to know what it takes to go to the top. Just explain what it takes to get into each tier (T18 - full skill set, T19 - start merging, T20 - you better have highly merged units, T21 - go for the high scoring skills and start babysitting your bonus units) and they can set goals themselves and know for themselves what is attainable. There's no need for so much unnecessary padding. Less is more.

I will commend you for accepting the criticism. Normally people get quite defensive in this situation.
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User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
10 months ago#75
@Sad_Face posted...
chunkyshtew posted...
I do appreciate the criticism since it will help me to write better guides in the future. How would you have structured the 'Choose your core section'?


As a guide writer, you need to do your research on what the average F2Player's tier rating is looking like and what prevents them from moving up. I can tell you that there was a popular Reddit thread where people were complaining about the Arena but when probed, you find out that they are no higher than T17. Why is that? Probing further, their teams weren't fully built. C skill slots untouched, Sacred Seal slots not fully thought out, characters wholly unoptimized. It's no wonder they weren't getting to the top. Looking at your guide, would they have been able to diagnose the problem?


Thank you for the commendations! Yes I spent weeks researching before I created this guide. I was actively corresponding with many users, both new and old, regarding arena and it's design.

An important consideration that you haven't mentioned is the importance of brevity and maintaining the readers attention, while also explaining complex and difficult concepts. This is largely why I chose the structure that I did.

I do absolutely feel that players angrily sitting in tier 17 unable to rank up would find my guide very valuable and helpful. The entire 'Scoring' section (section 2) is dedicated to explaining how to maximize your teams scoring and understanding how it affects your arena tier placements. I also think it's telling that for 7+ pages of responses, only 2 have been critical - one being yours, and the other being RenameFox. Neither of those criticisms are coming from low tier players.

Anyways, you mentioned that you would go about making this guide entirely differently than I did. May I ask how you may have structured it to best educate F2P and beginner players on arena?
d(^o^)b ~ Please @ me in responses if you want me to see them!
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User Info: Sad_Face

Sad_Face
10 months ago#76
chunkyshtew posted...
Anyways, you mentioned that you would go about making this guide entirely differently than I did. May I ask how you may have structured it to best educate F2P and beginner players on arena?


I would focus on:

Arena threats
Types of units (sweepers, walls or Press End Turn strategy units, nukers, buffers/debuffers, dancers)
Arena core Synergy (maybe an example with L!Ike and Fjorm, who groups well with them)
Askr Trio - use them
The importance of the C skill slot
How to build a successful defense team (i.e. stop using press end turn units and stop expecting wins with units everyone already has prepared counters specifically for)
Miscellaneous:
IVs: My unit isn't +SPD or +ATK, is it still usable - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES
Other links you should have favorited (gamepress, battle simulator, Arena team scorer, etc.)

The main thing you should focus on when starting out is how to build a good team that can carry you through a deathless Arena run. Much easier said than done when you handicap yourself by only using your favorite units as that's when Armor units have the advantage. But don't worry about that until you explore your other options; Are your units using a full set? Are your units using high scoring skills? Are your units merged? The first 2 will carry you straight to T19 if you trick out both your core and your bonus unit. T20 entry is where merges become a necessity and T21 is where respecting the seasons becomes most important.
imgtc.com/i/4HgTl0ebzq.jpg imgtc.com/i/60CWP2Gtlg.gif

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
10 months ago#77
@Sad_Face posted...
chunkyshtew posted...
Anyways, you mentioned that you would go about making this guide entirely differently than I did. May I ask how you may have structured it to best educate F2P and beginner players on arena?

I would focus on:
Arena threats
Types of units (sweepers, walls or Press End Turn strategy units, nukers, buffers/debuffers, dancers)
Arena core Synergy (maybe an example with L!Ike and Fjorm, who groups well with them)
Askr Trio - use them
The importance of the C skill slot
How to build a successful defense team (i.e. stop using press end turn units and stop expecting wins with units everyone already has prepared counters specifically for)

Miscellaneous:
IVs: My unit isn't +SPD or +ATK, is it still usable - FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES
Other links you should have favorited (gamepress, battle simulator, Arena team scorer, etc.)
The main thing you should focus on when starting out is how to build a good team that can carry you through a deathless Arena run. Much easier said than done when you handicap yourself by only using your favorite units as that's when Armor units have the advantage. But don't worry about that until you explore your other options; Are your units using a full set? Are your units using high scoring skills? Are your units merged? The first 2 will carry you straight to T19 if you trick out both your core and your bonus unit. T20 entry is where merges become a necessity and T21 is where respecting the seasons becomes most important.


What you are suggesting seems more like an advanced tea mbuilding guide than a F2P and Beginners arena guide. Where do you breakdown the scoring? Where do you explain how the ranking system works to beginners and new players? It seems as though in your proposed guide you have skipped the most important elements to dive straight into team building, which is really only an element of the Arena game mode.

'Types of units (sweepers, walls, PH, EP, etc)' is also a mute point given the current bonus unit support meta in the arena. Of course people could forgo the bonus unit KO system entirely and be content sitting in the lower tiers, but why dedicate so much of your guide to information that would be only relevant to a relatively small subset of players (most who would take the time to read a guide would likely want to score as highly as possible).

I do reference the Askr trio as ideal bonus unit candidates in section 3-A, however I personally have only used 1 (Alfonse) for a single season in my 4 months of playing and sit comfortably in tier 20.5, some weeks staying in tier 21 if it's fire season. Yes they are great but they are a little overhyped imo, there are plenty of GHB, TT, Fjorm, and even 3-4* summonable heroes that are in the bonus rotation.

Based on your suggestions I think you may enjoy writing an advanced F2P team-building guide, perhaps to piggyback off of this beginners guide? I didn't have much space to devote to team-building but it seems to be something that you enjoy discussing! :D
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#78
(message deleted)

User Info: Sad_Face

Sad_Face
10 months ago#79
chunkyshtew posted...
What you are suggesting seems more like an advanced tea mbuilding guide than a F2P and Beginners arena guide. Where do you breakdown the scoring? Where do you explain how the ranking system works to beginners and new players? It seems as though in your proposed guide you have skipped the most important elements to dive straight into team building, which is really only an element of the Arena game mode.


It's fine and dandy to criticize my paper note strategy for writing a guide, but I'm not the one writing the guide. You're the one that keeps asking for suggestions and the rest of this. The reason why I focus on those elements is because those are the elements that are most critical, you always hear people bellyaching about defenses, it's always a hot topic of using your favorites versus using armors. Why make a topic of a "F2P's and beginner's guide to Arena" if you don't answer those questions?
imgtc.com/i/4HgTl0ebzq.jpg imgtc.com/i/60CWP2Gtlg.gif

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
10 months ago#80
Sad_Face posted...
chunkyshtew posted...
What you are suggesting seems more like an advanced tea mbuilding guide than a F2P and Beginners arena guide. Where do you breakdown the scoring? Where do you explain how the ranking system works to beginners and new players? It seems as though in your proposed guide you have skipped the most important elements to dive straight into team building, which is really only an element of the Arena game mode.


It's fine and dandy to criticize my paper note strategy for writing a guide, but I'm not the one writing the guide. You're the one that keeps asking for suggestions and the rest of this. The reason why I focus on those elements is because those are the elements that are most critical, you always hear people bellyaching about defenses, it's always a hot topic of using your favorites versus using armors. Why make a topic of a "F2P's and beginner's guide to Arena" if you don't answer those questions?


I disagree that team composition is the most critical points of writing a beginner guide. As I've mentioned it is only one aspect to many in relation to the arena, and understanding the fundamentals of the game mode are what are most important to beginners and what I focused on in this guide. If I understand what you're suggesting it is excluding those elements and focussing entirely on the points that you mentioned (all relating to team composition on both offence and defence). As I mentioned I feel that approach would be better targeted towards more experienced players. I suppose at this point we just agree to disagree on this subject?

If folks are still confused about how to build their team, and they found the team-building section insufficient, they are more than welcome to discuss in the comments. That's largely why I made this a forum post topic as opposed to an actual FAQ/Guide, as those do not allow for dialogue.

Edit: I just want to reiterate I think that you do have some good points, I'm just think they would be better suited to more of a non-beginners guide. Many of the topics you listed could work quite well in a follow-up guide to this beginner one. :)
d(^o^)b ~ Please @ me in responses if you want me to see them!
#GotPringlesBack2014
(edited 10 months ago)
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