Am I the only GFaqs User who likes the new arena related changes?

You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. Fire Emblem Heroes
  3. Am I the only GFaqs User who likes the new arena related changes?

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
1 week ago#1
To preface, I am a fairly new player to FEH (I've been playing about 3.5 months). I have played the FE series since it's NA release, so I love the FE series. I got to tier 20 as quickly as possible (going up arena tiers every week) and am currently in tier 19.5, hopefully about to become a permanent tier 20 resident after I spend my ~450 orbs at the end of the month to put more merges on my +4 L!Hector.

I understand that most users here disagree with me, the amount of fire and brimstone on the forums every time a new arena change is announced is evidence of this. I just would like to share my own opinion/experience on the matter :)

When I first started the big critique of arena was that you had to use suboptimal skills to increase your arena score, and that you couldn't stay in the top tier with your favorite units (you are forced to use high BST units such as armors). I agree the suboptimal skills is a bit of a pain (DC on heroes with DC already in their weapons??), but the second point is an interesting critique I thought, because any competitive mode in a game is likely to have tiers in some form or another players shouldn't expect every single character in the game to be the best. What's more is that the game provides plenty of other modes to use your favorite heroes, even if that mode isn't arena.

Away I went planning my arena core, holding onto my feathers and orbs and planning accordingly to reach my end goal of a highly merged armors. I received a lot of Nowi merges so I invested into her, steady breath, QR, Aether, etc. so that she could help carry me. When L!Hector came along I was very excited, one of my favorite characters, and the highest BST in the game to boot. Spent all of my hard earned orbs on summoning for him and got him to +3.

Then the bonus unit KO scoring was announced about a month and a half ago. I was very excited because it meant that I could increase my score with clever team building and gameplay. I was surprised to see such soured opinions on the forum but I continued on my merry way and tried to tell people how great M!Corrin will be and that getting KO's with the bonus unit isn't as hard as people thought. I immediately invested into my M!corrins and I now have mine at +5 merges.

With CYL2 upgrades to skills were released. DB4 is a 300SP A skill that isn't DC, and it's inheritable! I was sure people would be happy, and for the most part they were. This was an encouraging reaction from the community. It seems the critique of having to use suboptimal skills was being addressed.

Now last night the information was data mined revealing that there is a new A skill that is locked to specific weapon/movement types that will treat their BST as 170. I immediately thought of the 2 main critiques I've seen posted around the forums here, and was very happy for those players who were upset for not being able to use their favorite units. When I got on the forums however, the backlash is nearly as bad as it was for the bonus unit KO scoring. People are up at arms for any number of reasons - having to spend orbs to acquire this skill, it takes up an A skill slot, their favorite characters don't have access to it, units who can receive it don't belong in top tier arena, etc. It's a little disheartening.

In summary, IS can't please everyone. I think that FEH is an amazing adaption of the Fire Emblem franchise, and I love playing this game. It's #2 on my list of favorite fire emblem games and in time may even become #1. I really appreciate the efforts that IS is taking to cater to the fan base and I am not opposed to the arena changes that they are making. Even if they were to change how scoring works and make my M!Corrin obsolete in arena tomorrow, I'd still have a fantastic support unit that I can use in other modes or at the very least have fond memories of having used to help me climb the arena tiers. I sure didn't have any lasting memories of using him in Fates lol.

TL;DR: I love FEH. IS is not the enemy. Any1agree?
d(^o^)b ~ And then I ate the bowl!
#GotPringlesBack2014

User Info: Zinie95

Zinie95
1 week ago#2
Yes.

User Info: DreadKaiser

DreadKaiser
1 week ago#3
TL;DR

no I like it, more variaty with no real downsides....yet.
The Omnipresent Connoisseur of Quality Fanart and $%!@Posting.
Eternal Champion of the 500 Game

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
1 week ago#4
@DreadKaiser posted...
TL;DR

no I like it, more variaty with no real downsides....yet.


Yay! I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. Also thanks for helping out with the datamining last night, I was following most of your posts on here and gamepress for the breaking news :D
d(^o^)b ~ And then I ate the bowl!
#GotPringlesBack2014

User Info: smash fanatic

smash fanatic
1 week ago#5
guedesbrawl posted...
@Sethman409 posted...
guedesbrawl posted...
That's a dirty way of solving Arenas problems.

I hope the fanbase is smart and this causes a backlash

Why?

"Here! Use the units you want!"
"f*** you IS!"

???


See, that's the dirty part. This is framed as a good thing, as if IS was being nice and benevolent with us, but it really isn't.

1 - This is still goes against FEH's biggest appeal as far as core gameplay goes: customization. If you want certain units to be usable, they need this very specific skill.

2 - This is an A slot skill. This is literally the worst slot the skill could've been on, as basically everyone except some Healers heavily depend on their A slot to get kills, to enter Desperation/Vantage range, to boost multiple stats at once, to tank, or to widen the range of units they can counterattack.

Probably the greatest example I can give you is Close Counter users. Dancer Xander in particular was min-maxed towards CC+QR and now he can't do that if you want to bring him to the upper echelons of Arena... oh wait.

3 - It's specifically tied to a Weapon + Mov type combo. That's a lot of skills IS needs to release even with Armors and Breaths not needing it. This has two consequences on its own: it severely slows down the rate we get new variations of A skills (like more combinations of the Solo line Flora just introduced), and these skills itself are victims of the same slowdown. How much time will we have to wait until all combinations are available?

2 + 3: These skills have an effect of another old A skill. So far that's just HP+5. This may change in the future, and creates even more imbalance and/or slowdown depending on which skills IS packs with them and if we'll see multiple variants of a Weapon+Mov combo but with a different old A skill attached (like the other stat boosters).

4 - These are critical skills, and you can bet your ass most if not all of them (I'm 100% sure of it will be the latter) are going to be tied to 5* exclusives. Meaning the gacha is literally holding you hostage if you want to compete. This is especially bad if the units that come with those skills are good on their own or if the player is a collector, which forces them to be at the gacha's mercy at least twice for a spare to fodder. This is a predatory mechanic and as close to Pay2Win as we ever got.

5 - It doesn't actually solve Arena's problems. In the end we are still forced to adhere to dumb rules when it comes to how units can be built, which units can be brought, and how one should be playing them.


(the only edit that needs to be made is that the skill is based off of color + move type and not weapon + move type, but everything else is 100% valid).
You can't spell Salt without Alt - Poison-puffs
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Meganium7

Meganium7
1 week ago#6
even if you """like""" it (and lmfao if you actually do jesus christ) that still doesn't mean it's a good thing for the game, and IS has completely f***ed up arena beyond the point of no return with this one. it's now unsalvageable
http://myanimelist.net/profile/Paiguy
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1094-nihon-falcom-general

User Info: RavingSwoobat

RavingSwoobat
1 week ago#7
chunkyshtew posted...
Now last night the information was data mined revealing that there is a new A skill that is locked to specific weapon/movement types that will treat their BST as 170. I immediately thought of the 2 main critiques I've seen posted around the forums here, and was very happy for those players who were upset for not being able to use their favorite units.

The problem with this is that not only does it have a restriction on what can use it, being locked to colour and movement type, it's also locked to a 5* gacha pull. It doesn't really address anything. You have to get lucky, or invest extra cash, for a crummy bandaid solution, and it only really benefit those who don't really care about their A skill. So far, only Flying Oliva (Red 5* locked) and Performing Arts Azura (seasonal locked) are the only real benefactors of this skill. That's not really a boon to using your favourite, unless your favourite is Azura/Olivia, or you like to be crippled in Offense/Defense.

Personally, I do not care for arena tiers, and am fine being in 20, but you can't say that the situation for the new A skills is fair, nor does it encourage diversity in teams, being as heavily restricted as it is, for no real reason, except to encourage pulls on new units that have these skills.

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
1 week ago#8
smash fanatic posted...
guedesbrawl posted...
@Sethman409 posted...
guedesbrawl posted...
That's a dirty way of solving Arenas problems.

I hope the fanbase is smart and this causes a backlash

Why?

"Here! Use the units you want!"
"f*** you IS!"

???


See, that's the dirty part. This is framed as a good thing, as if IS was being nice and benevolent with us, but it really isn't.

1 - This is still goes against FEH's biggest appeal as far as core gameplay goes: customization. If you want certain units to be usable, they need this very specific skill.

2 - This is an A slot skill. This is literally the worst slot the skill could've been on, as basically everyone except some Healers heavily depend on their A slot to get kills, to enter Desperation/Vantage range, to boost multiple stats at once, to tank, or to widen the range of units they can counterattack.

Probably the greatest example I can give you is Close Counter users. Dancer Xander in particular was min-maxed towards CC+QR and now he can't do that if you want to bring him to the upper echelons of Arena... oh wait.

3 - It's specifically tied to a Weapon + Mov type combo. That's a lot of skills IS needs to release even with Armors and Breaths not needing it. This has two consequences on its own: it severely slows down the rate we get new variations of A skills (like more combinations of the Solo line Flora just introduced), and these skills itself are victims of the same slowdown. How much time will we have to wait until all combinations are available?

2 + 3: These skills have an effect of another old A skill. So far that's just HP+5. This may change in the future, and creates even more imbalance and/or slowdown depending on which skills IS packs with them and if we'll see multiple variants of a Weapon+Mov combo but with a different old A skill attached (like the other stat boosters).

4 - These are critical skills, and you can bet your ass most if not all of them (I'm 100% sure of it will be the latter) are going to be tied to 5* exclusives. Meaning the gacha is literally holding you hostage if you want to compete. This is especially bad if the units that come with those skills are good on their own or if the player is a collector, which forces them to be at the gacha's mercy at least twice for a spare to fodder. This is a predatory mechanic and as close to Pay2Win as we ever got.

5 - It doesn't actually solve Arena's problems. In the end we are still forced to adhere to dumb rules when it comes to how units can be built, which units can be brought, and how one should be playing them.


(the only edit that needs to be made is that the skill is based off of color + move type and not weapon + move type, but everything else is 100% valid).


Yes I saw this post in the metagame change thread (which is essentially a thread complaining/pointing out the downsides) and that's actually what caused me to create this post as opposed to replying directly in that thread.

If you'd like I could offer a rebuttal to each of those points provided (though much of that is included in my wall of text above) but my concern is it may well be a waste of time as folks seem decided to feel one way or another about the changes IS implements.
d(^o^)b ~ And then I ate the bowl!
#GotPringlesBack2014

User Info: chunkyshtew

chunkyshtew
1 week ago#9
RavingSwoobat posted...
chunkyshtew posted...
Now last night the information was data mined revealing that there is a new A skill that is locked to specific weapon/movement types that will treat their BST as 170. I immediately thought of the 2 main critiques I've seen posted around the forums here, and was very happy for those players who were upset for not being able to use their favorite units.

The problem with this is that not only does it have a restriction on what can use it, being locked to colour and movement type, it's also locked to a 5* gacha pull. It doesn't really address anything. You have to get lucky, or invest extra cash, for a crummy bandaid solution, and it only really benefit those who don't really care about their A skill. So far, only Flying Oliva (Red 5* locked) and Performing Arts Azura (seasonal locked) are the only real benefactors of this skill. That's not really a boon to using your favourite, unless your favourite is Azura/Olivia, or you like to be crippled in Offense/Defense.
.


For 1, we don't know if that is the case. They may award a free unit choice, it wouldn't be unprecedented. And 2, I'll quote @DreadKaiser response to this exact point made in another thread:

DreadKaiser posted...
except........that's not true

it's not holding you hostage. you can just keep using High BST/SP/Merged units like you have been.
this is completely optional. they are not being held hostage and you do NOT need them go compete.

you will now see more variaty in higher tier arena
you now have the option of using otherwise low scoring units in Whale City

and nothing more then that.
d(^o^)b ~ And then I ate the bowl!
#GotPringlesBack2014

User Info: smash fanatic

smash fanatic
1 week ago#10
chunkyshtew posted...
smash fanatic posted...
guedesbrawl posted...
@Sethman409 posted...
guedesbrawl posted...
That's a dirty way of solving Arenas problems.

I hope the fanbase is smart and this causes a backlash

Why?

"Here! Use the units you want!"
"f*** you IS!"

???


See, that's the dirty part. This is framed as a good thing, as if IS was being nice and benevolent with us, but it really isn't.

1 - This is still goes against FEH's biggest appeal as far as core gameplay goes: customization. If you want certain units to be usable, they need this very specific skill.

2 - This is an A slot skill. This is literally the worst slot the skill could've been on, as basically everyone except some Healers heavily depend on their A slot to get kills, to enter Desperation/Vantage range, to boost multiple stats at once, to tank, or to widen the range of units they can counterattack.

Probably the greatest example I can give you is Close Counter users. Dancer Xander in particular was min-maxed towards CC+QR and now he can't do that if you want to bring him to the upper echelons of Arena... oh wait.

3 - It's specifically tied to a Weapon + Mov type combo. That's a lot of skills IS needs to release even with Armors and Breaths not needing it. This has two consequences on its own: it severely slows down the rate we get new variations of A skills (like more combinations of the Solo line Flora just introduced), and these skills itself are victims of the same slowdown. How much time will we have to wait until all combinations are available?

2 + 3: These skills have an effect of another old A skill. So far that's just HP+5. This may change in the future, and creates even more imbalance and/or slowdown depending on which skills IS packs with them and if we'll see multiple variants of a Weapon+Mov combo but with a different old A skill attached (like the other stat boosters).

4 - These are critical skills, and you can bet your ass most if not all of them (I'm 100% sure of it will be the latter) are going to be tied to 5* exclusives. Meaning the gacha is literally holding you hostage if you want to compete. This is especially bad if the units that come with those skills are good on their own or if the player is a collector, which forces them to be at the gacha's mercy at least twice for a spare to fodder. This is a predatory mechanic and as close to Pay2Win as we ever got.

5 - It doesn't actually solve Arena's problems. In the end we are still forced to adhere to dumb rules when it comes to how units can be built, which units can be brought, and how one should be playing them.


(the only edit that needs to be made is that the skill is based off of color + move type and not weapon + move type, but everything else is 100% valid).


Yes I saw this post in the metagame change thread (which is essentially a thread complaining/pointing out the downsides) and that's actually what caused me to create this post as opposed to replying directly in that thread.

If you'd like I could offer a rebuttal to each of those points provided (though much of that is included in my wall of text above) but my concern is it may well be a waste of time as folks seem decided to feel one way or another about the changes IS implements.

please do, i'd like to see how wrong you are
You can't spell Salt without Alt - Poison-puffs
  1. Boards
  2. Fire Emblem Heroes
  3. Am I the only GFaqs User who likes the new arena related changes?

Report Message

Terms of Use Violations:

Etiquette Issues:

Notes (optional; required for "Other"):
Add user to Ignore List after reporting

Topic Sticky

You are not allowed to request a sticky.

Update Topic Flair

You are not allowed to update this topic's flair.