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  3. What makes the older games a lot better (to you)?

User Info: SirBob1137

1 week ago#1
I’m honestly curious. I’ve heard a ton of hate towards the newer games (Fates, Awakening, and Three Houses), and I’m curious why a lot of long time players prefer the older games like Sacred Stones or FE7 (binding or blazing blade?). Now that I’ve finally gotten around to playing those older games a few times, I still don’t see why people seem to prefer them so much. Obviously Fates and the like have some major problems, but so do the two I’ve mentioned above.

User Info: tacomoney

1 week ago#2
Off the top of my head
  • No Avatar unit. A avatar can work for some games but for Fire Emblem the praise such a character gets at the expense of other units does a disservice to them. 3H was the worst as you couldn't customize besides your gender and yet didn't speak. What was really gained by not making Byleth a normal lord character that spoke that you could choose dialogue options for like past lords?
  • Not as much fanservice. This is a subjective topic I know. But I find the increase is impractical more sexy outfits really dragged down the games for a while. It breaks the immersion to go from relatively practical designs from the earlier games to the crap Awakening/Fates pulled. Were better now , but things like Kronya still get in.
  • A lot easier to break the gameplay balance. Now sure the older games aren't great with balance...look at FE4. But I feel with extra grinding, easier to access legendary weapons, several support bonuses, pair up , certain broken skills that it removes a lot of the challenge.
  • Really bad worldbuilding. This one is mostly directed at Fates where if you stepped back and looked at the world a lot of it made no sense . Why was there a curse in the underground kingdom, why did Hoshido have that special barrier and could never redo it after it was taken down, why was trade for food never done with Hoshido, what happened to the Dragon gods and what was the name of the damn continent it took place on.
  • Spreading development resources too thin or on wasteful things. Mostly Fates and 3H, these games insistence on 3+ routes I feel did more harm then good as the teams they had for the games could not create enough content that was good quality for 3 or more routes and they often suffered in story,balance or reusing maps ALOT. Or on crap that doesn't matter like the Sauna, fishing or Skinship
  • Scattered story .Hard to put into words but Awakening and Fates I feel story is all over the place with what your doing and where your going, be in random stops in Fates that somehow gets you back to the destination you had in the first place (Hi Leo and your BS teleport spell ) or the Valm arc in Awakening that focused on people I could care less about and didn't feel that special for what little old game references we got.
  • Not as dark story. Now 3H has improved this and a dark story is not required per se. But I feel the older games were willing to delve deeper into darker themes. Be it Tellius racism and Serenes Massacre, Sacred Stones demonic corruption and Orson's zombie wife and Holy War's ....mostly everything.
That is just off the top of my head, if I think of more I will add.
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User Info: Mozilla

1 week ago#3

Roy’s our boy

User Info: LordSeymour77

1 week ago#4
tacomoney posted...
Not as much fanservice. This is a subjective topic I know.

tacomoney posted...
Really bad worldbuilding.
The opposite extreme is lore dumps, which are often a problem when a fictional world only has 1 game to build it up. I suppose that one could have added more books in the Shadow Library, but in terms of dialogue, making people talk in too much detail would make them sound like kiosks. Not all games have the opportunity to have something, like the Last Round:

tacomoney posted...
3+ routes
That's one of the main appeals of a game with a title, like this. Nothing is more disappointing than a game about 3 kingdoms, and you only get to play as one.

tacomoney posted...
Sauna, fishing or Skinship
That's simultaneously a good and bad thing for players who want to do something else between battles but don't want to exit the game and do something else. In other words, it's to make sure that the player is glued to the game, no matter what they want to do.

tacomoney posted...
Be it Tellius racism and Serenes Massacre, Sacred Stones demonic corruption and Orson's zombie wife and Holy War's ....mostly everything.
Like with Castlevania before the reset toning stuff down as the graphics go up, it's probably to keep a certain rating, when the better graphics demand that the darker elements show more things. I also mentioned this when teleporting NPCs appear to make a lot less sense in 3D Fire Emblem than they did in 2D Fire Emblem.
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User Info: McLahey

1 week ago#5
I don't really believe in there being a divide between the old games and the new ones; Awakening and Three Houses are bad because they're poorly-designed, not because of modern conventions or mechanics in the series. The fact that Conquest can be one of the best games in the series while being just as modern is proof of that. There are certain gameplay trends among the newer titles that I don't like, yeah, but also ones that I do—and vice versa for the older titles.

Where I do think the older games are better is in more subjective, presentation-based things. The tone of the series' writing and artstyle used to be more serious and down-to-earth. Yeah there were still cartoonish villains, gimmicky characters who wouldn't be out of place in modern FE, anime hijinx in supports, and 1–4's artstyles were as anime relative to their time as modern FE is (before the style mellowed out with 5–12). But as a whole, they definitely had a classier, more refined style that IMO fit a lot better for a series about war and made it easier to invest in the world and take what was happening seriously.

Gameplay is still the top priority for me, but I do wish we could go back to the series' older vibes. Radiant Dawn was basically the perfect combination for me: the designs were attractive and colorful but classy and not overly anime, there was solid humor without it being over the top, the harsh realities of war were explored without it getting depressing or gratuitously violent, politics and worldbuilding were also explored without it getting boring like Western fantasy...I really wish we could get more games with that vibe. Echoes was actually really good in that regard, remaining faithful to the spirit of Gaiden while appropriately modernizing it, so I'm hopeful future remakes will keep that tone even if new games continue to degenerate.
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User Info: SirBob1137

1 week ago#6
I think I get a lot of what you are saying Tacomoney, though I do want to note that an avatar unit makes a lot more sense with games like 3H or Fates that have several different routes, because otherwise you can’t chose as naturally. And I have to say that I do love the multiple routes thing. It helps a ton with replay-ability at the very least.

User Info: YveItaI

1 week ago#7
I don't mind multiple routes, but they really should spend their resources on working on 2 max. 4 routes in Three Houses was just plain overkill and it's very apparent that parts of the gameplay and story took a hit as a result.

EDIT: I actually really like Gaiden/Echoes in how they did the route split where the player controls 2 armies at the same time and can be played through at whatever pace the player desires. Something similar to that in a future FE entry would be really cool. The issue with Gaiden/Echoes is that both armies are pretty small, so replayability is pretty low overall outside of trying different classes out for the villager units.
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(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Marienburg

1 week ago#8
The old games are built around an ironman campaign philosophy. The new games are built around building one or a couple of superunits with the rest of the army at best acting as support for the superunits or at worst waste of space. I grew up playing city builders like Impressions Games and Anno so I prefer the macro econ management necessary in the older games to the RPG superunits in the new ones.

User Info: pichuscute

1 week ago#9
I prefer the art style, music, and characters of Echoes. I also preferred a more JRPG approach to SRPGs, which is something Echoes/Gaiden do the most in this series, with full-on world building, side quests, and dungeon crawling. Although I guess 3H is still more on that side of the spectrum than some other FE games.

Most importantly, FE1/Gaiden/Echoes have much more intuitive and understandable gameplay, which I much prefer. Once we start dealing with a bunch of complex rules and systems and tons of exceptions to all of them, it just becomes too overbearing to properly understand all of it easily, causing the game to be less fun and more trial & error and frustration. I much prefer being able to relatively easily read the map and the game mechanics without considering 20 skills, 50 rule exceptions, and combinations of 100 different units and how it all might affect every move I make (and this does apply to older and newer FE games). :P

I do still like Awakening, but I don't particularly enjoy the gameplay. I just play it on the lowest difficulty and it's almost at a reasonable difficulty level then so that I can enjoy the story and characters without so much of the bad SRPG game design.
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(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: PKReawakened

1 week ago#10
actual protagonists and not s***ty self inserts

not as much fan service

characters that aren’t tropey

I don’t really prefer the older games over the new ones, but of the pre awakening FE games I’ve played(sacred stones, blazing sword, PoR) this is what I like about it over the newer ones
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