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  3. Yet another reason why they should have just ditched Silver Snow

User Info: DrGaster

DrGaster
1 month ago#51
I find it funny how bad Claude's schemes actually are in practice. The whole reason the slithers bombed is because Claude sent Ignatz with a letter telling them when they would arrive, allowing them to coordinate the missile strike.

Of course the Death Knight saw through it, I mean does Claude really think the Empire is so uncoordinated that they don't know the names of their own generals and where they should be stationed?
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User Info: bill114

bill114
1 month ago#52
Shire_Bound posted...
Dimitri saves this game from sucking

Not even close, but have your opinion I guess.

Before you jump all over me, do you really think Rhea vs Edelgard or Byleth vs Edelgard has any bite at all? What people care about this game is Dimitri vs Edelgard (and to a lesser extend Claude vs Edelgard).

Again not even close. Perhaps AM fans care about Dimitri vs Edelgard, but no one outside of that gives a crap. CF, SS, and VW sure as hell don't care.

Byleth and/or Rhea vs Edelgard however exists in every route and is a major aspect in every route.

And I will point out that neither Claude nor Dimitri get much development outside of their own routes. Edelgard and arguably Rhea do however.

Rhea vs Edelgard is boiled down to evil dragon overlord vs righteous human liberator in CF, and Rhea's got no presence or supports in other routes to undo that image.

No lord has supports or more presence than Rhea (if we're talking plot relevance, history, Byleth, etc) outside of their route. Except Edelgard.

Dimitri (and Claude to a lesser extent) is what makes this game interesting, because unlike Rhea who the writers use to prop Edelgard up and Byleth who has no personality, Dimitri and Claude aren't just props to make Edelgard look better and have personality.

They don't exist to make 'Edelgard look better,' they exist to provide variety so that everyone has someone to care about. Something this game did very well I think.

If it was just SS and CF, people would put this game in Fates tier.

Yet again, not even close. This certainly would not effect my opinion of the game, as I did not care much for the other routes outside of CF. I say this despite believing SS was a waste of time and the most pointless route.

However I recognize the importance of AM and VW for variety's sake so that everyone has something they can enjoy. SS was a waste though IMO, it's basically just VW but with (mostly) the same house as CF.

User Info: Vayu_The_End

Vayu_The_End
1 month ago#53
I think trying to argue Rhea has presence is certainly a hot take, and one that only gets argued to try to bolster up CF to be way more than it is.

Like him or not, Garon has way more presence than Rhea, especially in Conquest, given they actually succeed in emotionally breaking the main character and characters in game are actually, you know, terrified of him.

Nobody really has presence in Three Houses. Edelgard vanishes off the face of the planet in SS until near the end of the game. Dimitri's presence is limited to his own route. Claude isn't remotely interesting at all and Rhea might as well not exist outside of CF and in CF, she's interchangeable with Loptyr.

Most of antagonist Edelgard's competent actions happen off screen and vanishes the moment Byleth gets involved in the plot again, heck you can say the same for protagonist Edelgard who suddenly forgets how to wage a war in CF.

Spencer! Devon! Maria! LAWRENCE! NOOOOO!!!

User Info: ArtiRock

ArtiRock
1 month ago#54
Shire_Bound posted...
You are kidding yourself if you think anything outside of Dimitri vs Edelgard is the most discussed part of this game, and what gets people to care. People love Dimitri and/or Edelgard. No one would still be talking about this game if AM didn't exist.

If it was just CF and SS, as they are, this game would be way too vanilla for anyone to care about it. CF would be Edelgard-good, Rhea-evil. SS is Edelgard-sad, Rhea-N/A. There's nothing to discuss or get invested in.
It really is. Dimitri fans simply won't shut up about him, but Dimitri just doesn't matter at all.

Uh... No it wouldn't. There are plenty of people that discuss if what Edelgard did was right, or whether both of the women were wrong, and the merits to both of their methods. If CF and SS got more attention to them, they really would have been much better.
Shire_Bound posted...
Yeah - you basically said what I did. Rhea vs Edelgard, in CF at least, is boiled down to evil Rhea vs good Edelgard. Very boring, very dry. No one writes essays.
That's not "good vs evil." Are you kidding me? These are simply different approaches to how things work.
Shire_Bound posted...
I didn't mean Edelgard has no personality, but Byleth. That without Claude and Dimitri to play off of, Edelgard fall completely flat as a character because Byleth is a nodding head, and Rhea is either demon overlord or not there. Edelgard is made more interesting by having Claude and Dimitri offered as viable alternatives to her rather than just CF kissing her ass and SS ignoring her and Rhea.
And Byleth sucks in every route, so this isn't actually even an argument. Edelgard still has enough people to interact with over the course of the game.

Shire_Bound posted...
I haven't actually played Fates. I'm just saying if this game banked off of Edelgard vs Rhea and Edelgard vs Byleth alone, literally no one would care about it except the people who waifu Edelgard, because she's way less complex without Claude and Dimitri around.
Then why in the hell would you even say that the writing would be as bad as Fates if you haven't even played Fates? What kind of argument is that? And this is a really terrible take the Claude and Dimitri being around make Edelgard better. Dimitri in about every route that isn't AM is nothing short of a nuisance-- and even there, he's annoying before his "character development."
Vayu_The_End posted...
Nobody really has presence in Three Houses. Edelgard vanishes off the face of the planet in SS until near the end of the game. Dimitri's presence is limited to his own route. Claude isn't remotely interesting at all and Rhea might as well not exist outside of CF and in CF, she's interchangeable with Loptyr.

Most of antagonist Edelgard's competent actions happen off screen and vanishes the moment Byleth gets involved in the plot again, heck you can say the same for protagonist Edelgard who suddenly forgets how to wage a war in CF.
This is probably the most accurate statement about the game.

More frustrating is that the characters end up being more competent without Byleth. This is especially true for Edelgard.
This is the duty of the Grim Angels.

User Info: DiogoShadowJorg

DiogoShadowJorg
1 month ago#55
If one honestly thinks that Edelgard would be good and Rhea evil, outside of the final events of CF, then one doesn't know what good and evil is in the first place.
"Righteousness is like a good sword... just keep it pointed in the right direction."
FC: 3926-8239-0430

User Info: Shire_Bound

Shire_Bound
1 month ago#56
bill114 posted...
Not even close, but have your opinion I guess.

Again not even close. Perhaps AM fans care about Dimitri vs Edelgard, but no one outside of that gives a crap. CF, SS, and VW sure as hell don't care.

I was talking about fandom response, not what the routes do. Dimitri doesn't do much outside of AM, but you know that Dimitri vs Edelgard is the hottest argument among fans. No one cares enough about Rhea to argue for her (let's face it, they're all just arguing out of dislike for Edelgard, not stronge feelings for Rhea). People have passionate, over zealous even opinions about Dimitri and Edelgard, both positive and negative.

Without Dimitri, this discussion board would be a wasteland.

Byleth and/or Rhea vs Edelgard however exists in every route and is a major aspect in every route.

And I will point out that neither Claude nor Dimitri get much development outside of their own routes. Edelgard and arguably Rhea do however.

No lord has supports or more presence than Rhea (if we're talking plot relevance, history, Byleth, etc) outside of their route. Except Edelgard.

Rhea's presence vanishes in part 2 though (and spends all of part 1 making her look bad and untrustworthy). She's a mustache-twirling villain who's death is cause for celebration in CF. She's a tool used for lore dumping because the writers were too lazy to weave it in naturally in VW. In AM, she doesn't even show up. She doesn't even do anything in the church route for crying out loud. The writing makes 0 effort to make you care about Rhea and often goes out of its way to make you dislike her, and most of the fandom doesn't care as a result.

They don't exist to make 'Edelgard look better,' they exist to provide variety so that everyone has someone to care about. Something this game did very well I think.

Yet again, not even close. This certainly would not effect my opinion of the game, as I did not care much for the other routes outside of CF. I say this despite believing SS was a waste of time and the most pointless route.

However I recognize the importance of AM and VW for variety's sake so that everyone has something they can enjoy. SS was a waste though IMO, it's basically just VW but with (mostly) the same house as CF.

Oh, I didn't mean Claude and Dimitri were props - that's the opposite of what I mean. They're vital to 3H's success because they aren't just used as props to make Edelgard look better - that's Rhea. Because you're right, they provide variety. Because without them, you've got Edelgard or . . . nothing which is what SS offers in terms of characterization and putting interesting ideas forward.
ArtiRock posted...
It really is. Dimitri fans simply won't shut up about him, but Dimitri just doesn't matter at all
Uh... No it wouldn't. There are plenty of people that discuss if what Edelgard did was right, or whether both of the women were wrong, and the merits to both of their methods. If CF and SS got more attention to them, they really would have been much better.

No one gives a crap about Rhea. SS is nearly universally considered the worst route. Anyone who argues for Rhea is often just anti-Edelgard and doesn't care about Rhea.

As for CF and SS being better if you cut AM and VW. Maybe, but we don't know what would happen. And if this game only had CF and SS as they are now, it would completely suck.

That's not "good vs evil." Are you kidding me? These are simply different approaches to how things work.

Then please argue Rhea's side of those arguments as you proposed them then if you think anyone would see what you said as anything other than the obviously good vs obviously bad options.

And Byleth sucks in every route, so this isn't actually even an argument. Edelgard still has enough people to interact with over the course of the game.

Exactly. Byleth sucks. Rhea's just a tool the writing doesn't bother with. Claude and Dimitri give something actually interesting to pit Edelgard against.

Then why in the hell would you even say that the writing would be as bad as Fates if you haven't even played Fates? What kind of argument is that? And this is a really terrible take the Claude and Dimitri being around make Edelgard better. Dimitri in about every route that isn't AM is nothing short of a nuisance-- and even there, he's annoying before his "character development."

I meant overall fandom response, not my personal opinion. I have no opinion on Fates, but fandom consensus is "Fates bad." All I'm saying is without VW and AM, fandom general opinion would dump 3H into the same tier.

User Info: Transformers234

Transformers234
1 month ago#57
DiogoShadowJorg posted...
If one honestly thinks that Edelgard would be good and Rhea evil, outside of the final events of CF, then one doesn't know what good and evil is in the first place.
Do you really have room to talk?
Meep

User Info: Charged151

Charged151
1 month ago#58
Exactly. Byleth sucks. Rhea's just a tool the writing doesn't bother with. Claude and Dimitri give something actually interesting to pit Edelgard against.

Claude flat out doesn't matter in his own route, and never has any meaningful interaction with Edelgard either, and becomes irrelevant altogether after Chapter 11 when Edelgard is the one driving the plot, again in this own route. He could have been better done if his route had us go to Almyra for whatever reason (maybe Edelgard takes over all of Fodlan during the timeskip and you somehow start there in Part II) and we actually learn more about his background and actual name, but as it is, it is just Silver Snow with a few changes.

Dimitri is okayish I guess. You could reread post 11 if you want for what I'm about to say, but his route deserves flak for Dimitri not shutting up about the Tragedy of Duscar...yet it is the only route you don't learn about who was actually behind it. Also, the lack of resolution to the Patricia situation hurts.

Shire_Bound posted...
I meant overall fandom response, not my personal opinion. I have no opinion on Fates, but fandom consensus is "Fates bad." All I'm saying is without VW and AM, fandom general opinion would dump 3H into the same tier.
Two things.

  1. Conquest's gameplay/map design is great and it is still fun to replay, but I didn't really like much else about Fates. It would be a lot better if all its ties to Awakening (both in terms of the plot/characters/proxies as well as the children gameplay mechanic) were stripped out of it. Of course, that's just my opinion.
  2. AM and VW are probably the two routes that are the most fun to play, as CF was clearly rushed and is way too short...and Silver Snow can be a bit barebones. Saying that, VW is almost a copy of SS, and AM is just barely more unique...so we have three routes that are essentially the same in terms of the maps, and that is not good. With the material that is available, it makes me wish we just had two properly done routes instead of what we got. As in, a longer CF (that deals with TWSITD over a few chapters and concluding with Nemesis post-Chapter 18) being one of the routes and a fusion of AM, VW, and SS being the other. The effort that went into making two copypasta routes could have went better into developing just two.


User Info: DiogoShadowJorg

DiogoShadowJorg
1 month ago#59
Transformers234 posted...
Do you really have room to talk?

Yes. More than enough to make a citadel.
"Righteousness is like a good sword... just keep it pointed in the right direction."
FC: 3926-8239-0430

User Info: triabolical

triabolical
1 month ago#60
DiogoShadowJorg posted...
If one honestly thinks that Edelgard would be good and Rhea evil, outside of the final events of CF, then one doesn't know what good and evil is in the first place.

Good and evil do not exist in absolute. They are just convenient ways to compare ideas and events to your own preferences.
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