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  3. Does anyone have a good reason for siding with Edelgard? (CF route spoilers)

User Info: darkmoon6789

darkmoon6789
2 days ago#101
mariesmns posted...
Played as male Byleth for my CF run, being blinded with love is the only excuse I could find for him to follow her. When we get the choice to side with her, we just learnt she was working with the guys who killed my father, transformed a whole village into zombies and tried to exile us in another dimension. Yeah, we learn later that she doesn't agree with them, but Byleth doesn't know it at that time. Don't see why my dude would want to side with her in these conditions if he wasn't infatuated with her.

And yeah, the church has its flaws, but we basically became a God to Rhea's eyes at this point of the story and she wants us to lead in her stead : nothing stops you from reforming the church from inside when you're the pope and the Goddess incarnation. Might as well try to talk things out with the Church and other countries rather than go on an all-out war right away.
From the perspective of Byleth, I am sure that the reason was "screw it, I like this girl, I won't allow her to come to harm.". Not much else you could go by at the time, granted, there are plenty of signs that the church is a bit shady. But I have always viewed that it is pretty much canon in crimson flower that Byleth and Edelgard are in love, the story makes the most sense if you assume that. At the very least Edelgard is clearly infatuated with Byleth in this route. But she was legitimately shocked that you did choose to join her

Learnt soon afterwards that Edelgard's perspective actually made sense, plus Rhea makes a terrible impression on me in both routes immediately after this choice, if I want against Edelgard, I would have regretted it immediately. Thanks to Rhea's speal about eternal flames immediately afterwards. Her talk about ripping out your heart . If you to side with Edelgard also immediately convinced me she was crazy.

TrashPandaJedi posted...
She looks nice. I feel like thats main reason for most people. Plus many are against religious crazies
Pretty much least when it comes to the religious crazies, I straight up don't think religious organisations should wield as much power or have a monopoly on religion in the way that the church of Seiros does. Edelgard is also quite pretty, but she is hardly the only attractive girl in this game, so I don't think that is the deciding factor. I actually love her personality and for the lack of a better term, "rebellious heart". Sorry Rhea, but I prefer her rebellious heart to keep beating, that is what I like about her

User Info: Number090684

Number090684
2 days ago#102
shamfuru posted...
@Illx2 as I have said elsewhere here "comrade," one lies loudest when they lie to themselves.

don't be so eager to fall for your own, you might learn something.

Truth. Hell GD / VW isn't even pro Church, but if IIIx2 is dumb enough to let his / her personal beliefs keep themself from experiencing the entire story, then by all means keep on choking on that narrow minded bulls*** sandwich you've made for yourself.
US N Switch "Number" FC SW-3804-3177-9797
US PS3 / PS4 / PS Vita PSN: Number090684
darkmoon6789 posted...
If Rhea would be more open to Edelgard's suggestions of reforming the crest and nobility system, Rhea should also know it is corrupt in its current form, is no reason for Edelgard to declare war. (Other than pressure from those who slither in the dark, who is a common enemy between Edelgard and Rhea)
That would require Edelgard to actually make that suggestion in the first place. But it also sounds like Edelgard would only not start a war if Rhea just gave in to all her demands unconditionally.
The Official Dragoon Chick of the Final Fantasy Versus XIII Board

User Info: darkmoon6789

darkmoon6789
2 days ago#104
Dark_Mage_Xelin posted...
That would require Edelgard to actually make that suggestion in the first place. But it also sounds like Edelgard would only not start a war if Rhea just gave in to all her demands unconditionally.
Rhea would pretty much need to dismantle the nobility system and proclaim that the church of Seiros. From that day forward would support a meritocratic society, equal opportunity for commoner and noble and make an official proclamation that abuses of crests will not be tolerated. The compromise on Edelgard's part would be that she would allow the church to keep the existing and Rhea would remain the Archbishop. But in all honesty Rhea should probably be doing this anyway. Many people suffer because of her inaction against something that is a obvious societal problem.

I guess alternatively, if it wasn't for the slitherers who really want her to go to war, Edelgard could just make a proclamation that the Empire is leaving the church and rejecting the crest system. This might cause Rhea to declare war on her(she is not very tolerant of people openly defying the church), but at the very least, it wouldn't be Edelgard declaring the war this time. I think the reason she doesn't do this is because she cares about the people abused under the crest system in the other nations as well and won't abandon them.

I am similar in some ways, it will compromise when it comes to people's liberty, or one people have their rights violated. If a society considers women, second-class citizens, you really think we should do, make a compromise that enables them to continue their abuse, even if it is on a lesser scale. Or do you think that we should just reform that society by any means necessary in order to help the innocent people oppressed by their traditions? Some inequalities we shouldn't tolerate

User Info: kollie89

kollie89
2 days ago#105
darkmoon6789 posted...

There is something about the relationship between Edelgard and Byleth that makes me feel like it was meant to be

That might fall under a “Delusion of grandeur”
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User Info: darkmoon6789

darkmoon6789
2 days ago#106
kollie89 posted...
That might fall under a “Delusion of grandeur”
or maybe just that these characters have good chemistry, however much chemistry you can have with a blank slate. I guess it is just that Edelgard's obvious infatuation with Byleth , I think is quite adorable and sweet, which is a nice contrast to the Edelgard we see in war

Or maybe that is projecting my own infatuation with a fictional character, but I don't see how that is delusion of grandeur.

I guess I just see it as out of all the characters in the game, the only one that is canonically in love with the main character is Edelgard, she even has a thing for him/her in other routes.
darkmoon6789 posted...
Rhea would pretty much need to dismantle the nobility system and proclaim that the church of Seiros. From that day forward would support a meritocratic society, equal opportunity for commoner and noble and make an official proclamation that abuses of crests will not be tolerated. The compromise on Edelgard's part would be that she would allow the church to keep the existing and Rhea would remain the Archbishop. But in all honesty Rhea should probably be doing this anyway. Many people suffer because of her inaction against something that is a obvious societal problem.
How would Rhea dismantle the nobility? Can she just say “Hey nobles I am taking way all your titles and land and dismantling the nobility system.”? Would the nobles just go “Sure Lady Rhea. Here is everything. Hope you have a nice day!”? What if the nobles say no? What action would be appropriate for Rhea to take? What happens if the nobles rebel against her? Would she be allowed to fight back?

And what would constitute “abuse of crests” and what action will she take if abuse of crests takes place?

I don’t expect you to answer these questions. The point I am trying to make is even if Rhea tries to do something Edelgard might not agree with what she is doing and how she does it. I don’t think it is as simple as “Well if Rhea just did something, Edelgard would not have started the war.”
The Official Dragoon Chick of the Final Fantasy Versus XIII Board

User Info: Jawaun

Jawaun
2 days ago#108
darkmoon6789 posted...
Rhea would pretty much need to dismantle the nobility system and proclaim that the church of Seiros. From that day forward would support a meritocratic society, equal opportunity for commoner and noble and make an official proclamation that abuses of crests will not be tolerated. The compromise on Edelgard's part would be that she would allow the church to keep the existing and Rhea would remain the Archbishop. But in all honesty Rhea should probably be doing this anyway. Many people suffer because of her inaction against something that is a obvious societal problem.

I guess alternatively, if it wasn't for the slitherers who really want her to go to war, Edelgard could just make a proclamation that the Empire is leaving the church and rejecting the crest system. This might cause Rhea to declare war on her(she is not very tolerant of people openly defying the church), but at the very least, it wouldn't be Edelgard declaring the war this time. I think the reason she doesn't do this is because she cares about the people abused under the crest system in the other nations as well and won't abandon them.

I am similar in some ways, it will compromise when it comes to people's liberty, or one people have their rights violated. If a society considers women, second-class citizens, you really think we should do, make a compromise that enables them to continue their abuse, even if it is on a lesser scale. Or do you think that we should just reform that society by any means necessary in order to help the innocent people oppressed by their traditions? Some inequalities we shouldn't tolerate
The problem with the essay that you just wrote is first edelguard system is still just a big dictatorship where the emperor decides what everyone does they aren't living exactly free lives second for rhea to do what you're saying she supposed to do should have to go to war with two different countries it's the one problem a lot of y'all don't understand is that she doesn't have the power to tell everyone what to do both of them can never come to an understanding because there are two sides of the same coin they're trying to make the world better but in the end they're really not going to this is why I don't like edelgard or Rhea fans they don't really look at their flaws they just look at the other person's flaws as an excuse
And the thing I hate the most about edelgard doesn't care about weak people at all she pretty much says so inside of the azure moon route And Rhea it's just a idiot mother obsess psycho

also I think you need to understand the world a little bit better because virtually what you just said is it's okay for America to go over to Africa kill every last one of their warlords to make their lives better The only thing that would do is have needless killing and have everyone there be scared of us what we should do is set an example a good example so the people of that country have something to look up to that way if there is a rebellion where they're trying to overthrow their corrupt government we can go over the help instead of going over it and killing senselessly
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: darkmoon6789

darkmoon6789
2 days ago#109
Dark_Mage_Xelin posted...
How would Rhea dismantle the nobility? Can she just say “Hey nobles I am taking way all your titles and land and dismantling the nobility system.”? Would the nobles just go “Sure Lady Rhea. Here is everything. Hope you have a nice day!”? What if the nobles say no? What action would be appropriate for Rhea to take? What happens if the nobles rebel against her? Would she be allowed to fight back?

And what would constitute “abuse of crests” and what action will she take if abuse of crests takes place?

I don’t expect you to answer these questions. The point I am trying to make is even if Rhea tries to do something Edelgard might not agree with what she is doing and how she does it. I don’t think it is as simple as “Well if Rhea just did something, Edelgard would not have started the war.”
Rhea has been able to put rogue nobles in their place before using her military forces (Lord Lonato), why would this time be any different? Sure, there probably would be an uprising, and there would still be a war, but this time, Edelgard and Rhea are on the same side. Assuming that the Slitherers still exist in this scenario, they would also probably still cause trouble, and had control of a great portion of the Empire, weakening Edelgard's forces considerably. So yeah, maybe with enough rubble nobles and the support of the slitherers, maybe they joint alliance of Edelgard and Rhea would be the underdog. Without the Slitherers, or if Edelgard manage to read the Empire of much of their influence, Rhea would have the entire millenary of the Empire at her disposal. When it comes to enforcing these new rules.

I don't know why people say that Rhea don't have any power, she controls the dominant religion on the continent and have a personal army that is among the most powerful out of any nation, with the exception of the Empire. I don't even know if the people would be willing to take up arms against the Archbishop in this case as Rhea is clearly demonstrated before this point. What happens to the people who do so.

Yes, I am saying that Rhea would indeed have a right to wage war as a response to a rebellion, and yes, that also applies to Edelgard and her revolt. It is pretty stupid to suggest you don't have a right to defend yourself when someone declares war. But I also don't think that a declaration of war is necessarily wrong. If you have a legitimate reason for doing so

Jawaun posted...
The problem with the essay that you just wrote is first edelguard system is still just a big dictatorship where the emperor decides what everyone does they aren't living exactly free lives second for rhea to do what you're saying she supposed to do should have to go to war with two different countries it's the one problem a lot of y'all don't understand is that she doesn't have the power to tell everyone what to do both of them can never come to an understanding because there are two sides of the same coin they're trying to make the world better but in the end they're really not going to this is why I don't like edelgard or Rhea fans they don't really look at their flaws they just look at the other person's flaws as an excuse
And the thing I hate the most about edelgard doesn't care about weak people at all she pretty much says so inside of the azure moon route And Rhea it's just a idiot mother obsess psycho

also I think you need to understand the world a little bit better because virtually what you just said is it's okay for America to go over to Africa kill every last one of their warlords to make their lives better The only thing that would do is have needless killing and have everyone there be scared of us what we should do is set an example a good example so the people of that country have something to look up to that way if there is a rebellion where they're trying to overthrow their corrupt government we can go over the help instead of going over it and killing senselessly
technically, any absolute ruler would be a dictator in modern terms, so literally every nation in this game, with the exception of the alliance is a dictatorship (the alliance is an oligarchy). Not saying that her government is perfect, but it is still a heck of a lot better than was before, and it could be the start of some major reforms, which could possibly lead to democracy and capitalism, which is in a way of form of meritocracy. Not ideal forms of government either, but a lot better than what was previously.

You probably brought up the idea in the second paragraph with the wrong person as I do definitely have some controversial opinions on that subject. Yes, I do indeed think that overthrowing corrupt governments in Third World countries and make them vassal states in order to improve the lives of their citizens considerably and actually give them proper human rights, and use the immense wealth of the West to raise them out of poverty and actually give these people education would indeed be justified. Sure, the initial war would be bloody, but people already suffer in these countries, mortality rates are high and people's lives are miserable. So in the end it might have been the correct course of action. Of course this is all assuming that America or whoever would do this would actually have these people's best interest at heart when they invade and not exploit them for their resources, which is kind of where this plan fails because I wouldn't actually trust America to do the right thing in this case as their society is too consumed by greed.

Also, going back to the original topic, I think the most sensible reason for siding with Edelgard is that this helps her becoming a much better person and the effect on her in this way as a massive impact on how the war was fought. With Edelgard being less ruthless. The war won't escalate to the same level and civilians will the most part be kept out of it. If her victory is smooth sailing. The war won't last as long and won't claim as many casualties. Making Edelgard a better person have a massive impact on the world

User Info: Kantiran

Kantiran
2 days ago#110
darkmoon6789 posted...
Of course this is all assuming that America or whoever would do this would actually have these people's best interest at heart when they invade and not exploit them for their resources, which is kind of where this plan fails because I wouldn't actually trust America to do the right thing in this case as their society is too consumed by greed.
Swap "america" for "the guy after Edelgard" and "society" for "human nature" and we have the exact reason why I think Edelgards meritocracy won't work for a long time.
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