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User Info: Toadmode

Toadmode
2 months ago#21
FajitaEata posted...
If anything the battalions offset the lack of faire, but you're still stuck on a class that gets mobility penalized very often on a unit that needs to get out of enemy range. Warlock has to be her worst viable class she can't be anywhere she needs to be for rallies and her range is garbage.

And +4 speed +4 strength absolutely make your Byleth and Dimitri more stacked, but without a wyvern she can't get anywhere without aggroing the right side of the map. WR>>>every other class by far at that point considering Annette only has two things that make her worth using over other mages, a forced deployment on the hardest map and rallies.

They don’t just offset, they exceed. With dlc even at C authority you have access to a +8 magic attack battalion.

First 3 turns is the only difficult part of 13. Annette comes after. Map is already effectively over at that point.

Warlock is fine. 3 range and 5 move with march ring isn’t what you make it out to be. Not only that but you get the magic stat boost from Warlock and the res boost as well.

Excalibur at that point has +3 mt from stat boost, +8 from battalion. Both of these things you don’t have access to as a WL. It makes Excalibur a 22 mt ability.

Even a Silver Axe+ Lightening axe from a WR will only have roughly 25 mt in comparison, but be limited to melee range.

But then you have Dark Knight post 30 which just blows WL out of the water with its damage.

Also I barely use rallies past mid game.

User Info: katella

katella
2 months ago#22
EpicJourney posted...
VW doesn't count because you can only get it in a chest on the final map. Good luck making use of it.

It can only be acquired in CF when you are already 70% through the game.

User Info: FajitaEata

FajitaEata
2 months ago#23
Toadmode posted...
They don’t just offset, they exceed. With dlc even at C authority you have access to a +8 magic attack battalion.

First 3 turns is the only difficult part of 13. Annette comes after. Map is already effectively over at that point.

Warlock is fine. 3 range and 5 move with march ring isn’t what you make it out to be. Not only that but you get the magic stat boost from Warlock and the res boost as well.

Excalibur at that point has +3 mt from stat boost, +8 from battalion. Both of these things you don’t have access to as a WL. It makes Excalibur a 22 mt ability.

Even a Silver Axe+ Lightening axe from a WR will only have roughly 25 mt in comparison, but be limited to melee range.

But then you have Dark Knight post 30 which just blows WL out of the water with its damage.

Also I barely use rallies past mid game.
You're way overselling a couple more points of damage and completely underselling how much flying utility helps her. Giving her the devil's axe alone makes sure she overkills everything and she doesn't care about the penalty because she isn't getting hit anyway.

WR makes her twice as mobile as warlock with even more of an effective range with canto. And rallies are never not helpful at any point in the game she doesn't have an enemy phase so if she isn't cleaning up she might as well be rallying.

She can't canto effectively if she is getting hit by movement penalties there are way more situations that make DK worse than the small extra damage you get and spell access.

User Info: EpicJourney

EpicJourney
2 months ago#24
katella posted...
It can only be acquired in CF when you are already 70% through the game.
I know, that's part of the reason why I hate it. At least in CF's case, you obtain it in chapter 15 at the earliest and thus can use it in 4 story battles. In VW, by the time you unlock the chest holding it, you're likely already 99% done with the battle.

User Info: EdeaCreamer

EdeaCreamer
2 months ago#25
Depends on the weapon class and which units are spec'd/tied to that class. It also depends whether said units in your current team configuration are the wielders of your Caduceus Staff and Thyrsus; those units pretty much won't need magic weaponry, but you only get one of each, so they don't exactly constitute 'coverage' (also, Lysithea tends to hog the latter one to herself).

Probably the best ones are Levin Sword and Magic Bow.

The former is extremely useful for Byleth, due to having a sub-par Reason loadout (all of them are 1~2, lack riders, and are otherwise not particularly notable) along with a free class upgrade that includes Swordfaire and a magical stat loadout, along with only needing to go from D+ to C in Swords and Byleth not learning Soulblade or Hexblade (kind of a head-turner, IMO).

The latter benefits from the Bowrange innates of Sniper/Bow Knight, so if using those classes it rivals even the Caduceus/Thyrsus (respectively), and Bow CAs tend to be very strong, so when used through one of these they are likely to reliably blick things out of existence (there's also no conversion CA for Bows; this is the only way to use Mag as a Bow specialist). Also, unlike the other magic weapons, Magic Bow has an effectiveness pointer (Fliers, obviously), and a particularly relevant one since one of the main counters to magic carries that movement type (Pegs/Falcons). However, its Forging and wielding requirements are more stringent than the Levin Sword's (B+/B instead of C+/C), so it doesn't cause havoc in the earlier segments of the game.

Bolt Axe is really only for Edelgard or Annette; most of the other Axe specs either have terrible Mag or much better options (Sylvain gets Swift Strikes AND Lightning Axe, probably not going to need one). The Arrow of Indra is far too rare and gets far too little screen time to really be worth mentioning, and Aura Knuckles are...kinda sad (rank A, Prof Level A+ to Forge, and range 1, while most mages can't even Brawl in-class. Wow, they really don't want you quad-ing vs. Res.).
Fifth of cognac, add some triple-sec...

User Info: Toadmode

Toadmode
2 months ago#26
FajitaEata posted...
You're way overselling a couple more points of damage and completely underselling how much flying utility helps her. Giving her the devil's axe alone makes sure she overkills everything and she doesn't care about the penalty because she isn't getting hit anyway.

WR makes her twice as mobile as warlock with even more of an effective range with canto. And rallies are never not helpful at any point in the game she doesn't have an enemy phase so if she isn't cleaning up she might as well be rallying.

She can't canto effectively if she is getting hit by movement penalties there are way more situations that make DK worse than the small extra damage you get and spell access.

You have to be in melee range all the time lmao. Your movement bonus that your touting, half of it is eroded by the fact that you can’t put yourself in the the situation a Dark Knight can thanks to how hard it hits from range. (With 100 hit)

Just a couple points of damage lol. Just 6-8 more damage with lightening axe more. Who cares. Instakilling fliers? Who cares.

Its not like you can’t use rallies either.

Like I get it. You really like flying. You’re willing to give up more damage, magic utility, weapon variety and more range in order to get it. But to say it’s optimal to give all that up so you can fly over a building a few times? Please.

User Info: FajitaEata

FajitaEata
2 months ago#27
Toadmode posted...
You have to be in melee range all the time lmao. Your movement bonus that your touting, half of it is eroded by the fact that you can’t put yourself in the the situation a Dark Knight can thanks to how hard it hits from range. (With 100 hit)

Just a couple points of damage lol. Just 6-8 more damage with lightening axe more. Who cares. Instakilling fliers? Who cares.

Its not like you can’t use rallies either.

Like I get it. You really like flying. You’re willing to give up more way more damage, magic utility, weapon variety and more range in order to get it. But to say it’s optimal to give all that up so you can fly over a building a few times? Please.
Your set up doesn't even make sense in a reasonable time A for Excalibur for Annette to even think of one shotting units using reason, B for axes to use lightning axe, B-A authority to use a battalion giving her 8-10 magic, while also needing to dump points into riding and lances.

Wyvern rider comes earlier, is better than anything she can do in the advanced class range, gives her a niche over every other magic user who does everything you're explaining but way better, and one shots 90% of the enemies with no fear of enemy phase because of canto.

User Info: Toadmode

Toadmode
2 months ago#28
FajitaEata posted...
Your set up doesn't even make sense in a reasonable time A for Excalibur for Annette to even think of one shotting units using reason, B for axes to use lightning axe, B-A authority to use a battalion giving her 8-10 magic, while also needing to dump points into riding and lances.

Wyvern rider comes earlier, is better than anything she can do in the intermediate class range, gives her a niche over every other magic user who does everything you're explaining but way better, and one shots 90% of the enemies with no fear of enemy phase because of canto.
C+ in axes. C+ in authority. A in reason. All of these she has a head start in. It’s easy enough to reach what you need for warlock.

If we’re talking WR you need D+ reason (realistically C), C+ Authority, C flying, B axes.

Yeah I’m going to need riding and Lances but you will also need Lances and more flying. I’ve done both it’s not that different.

Also Warlock has the range advantage here while also hitting harder with lightening axe and hitting similarly otherwise but from 3 range. You can move more but you’re vulnerable to bows and have to hit in melee.

Also why would I build a character for the last bit of white clouds it’s the easiest segment of the game

Annette is the second best mage unit in the game, behind Lysithea.

User Info: Dekadense

Dekadense
2 months ago#29
They are alright.

Lightning Axe/Frozen Lance are definitely underrated, especially with how a couple units can get those early on.

User Info: FajitaEata

FajitaEata
2 months ago#30
Toadmode posted...
C+ in axes. C+ in authority. A in reason. All of these she has a head start in. It’s easy enough to reach what you need for warlock.

If we’re talking WR you need D+ reason (realistically C), C+ Authority, C flying, B axes.

Yeah I’m going to need riding and Lances but you will also need Lances and more flying. I’ve done both it’s not that different.

Also Warlock has the range advantage here while also hitting harder with lightening axe and hitting similarly otherwise but from 3 range. You can move more but you’re vulnerable to bows and have to hit in melee.

Also why would I build a character for the last bit of white clouds it’s the easiest segment of the game

Annette is the second best mage unit in the game, behind Lysithea.
Warlock Annette is rarely using lightning axe with 4 movement, she's never doubling unless against knights, and she's rarely one shotting either. She's chip damage while at the same tier, WR is nuking enemies with an equal effective range and more mobility. You say this isn't helpful in chapter 13 but I just replayed that one and my Annette absolutely made a huge difference.

Hubert is a better mage than Annette and Dorothea is too the only redeaming thing about a 4 mov class is having 3 range spells which Annette just doesn't have. Lysithea gets away with it because thysarus which I guess could go to Annette but would be doing some seriously heavy favoritism at that point.
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