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  3. Can We Stop Acting Like this Game Presents a Morally Gray Story Yet?(spoilers)

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#221
Walshin posted...
Yes, even THAT guy.

Not quite the same, but I'd like to add that the Lord Heydrich loves all creation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95DFWBgZhwY
I'm sorry, but Nazi scare doesn't work on me. It's like Jedi mind tricks on Toydarians.
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: Siriocaz

Siriocaz
4 days ago#222
Walshin posted...
Siriocaz posted...
What you say is pretty reasonable, and I'd ultimately agree with the notion that the game is not very well written, but Edelgard is still a "morally grey character". She does things that could be considered both good and bad, she has a grand ideal but leaves others' behind. That's "grey" as it can get.


You know, by twisting your reasoning enough, the exact same thing could be said of every dictator of the 20th century. Yes, even THAT guy.

Just sayin'.

Obviously? Everyone does good and bad things, including your cliché oppresive guys like Hitler and Mussolini.
Think you can take me?! *Beats with assault rifle* Don't forget me!

User Info: lowell666

lowell666
4 days ago#223
Chefcook90 posted...
Simcambi posted...
tldr; just because an antagonist has motivations doesn't make them "grey"

Edelgard doesn't have motivations - she has IDEALS.

She's fighting a war to end all wars!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0RMGid6vo

"Making the mother of all omelettes here, Dimitri! Can't do it without breaking a few eggs! I'm using crests as a business, to END crests as a business!"


Must you uncrack the eggs? Must you continue to cook in kind?
Part of the flat Earth society. We have members all around the world

User Info: lowell666

lowell666
4 days ago#224
Siriocaz posted...
What you say is pretty reasonable, and I'd ultimately agree with the notion that the game is not very well written, but Edelgard is still a "morally grey character". She does things that could be considered both good and bad, she has a grand ideal but leaves others' behind. That's "grey" as it can get.


Well, technically l, sure. But the problem is that the story does a poor job justifying the lengths she’s go for that ideal
Part of the flat Earth society. We have members all around the world

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#225
lowell666 posted...
Must you uncrack the eggs? Must you continue to cook in kind?

... Damn it. Stop making me in the mood for Spanish tortillas.
lowell666 posted...
Well, technically l, sure. But the problem is that the story does a poor job justifying the lengths she’s go for that ideal

Still better than the old days where you couldn't even play as the "Wei-type" side. You were only locked into the boring, old Shu people. That's why Koei 3 Kingdoms is so much better than Capcom 3 Kingdoms, but I digress.
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.
(edited 4 days ago)
#226
(message deleted)

User Info: Walshin

Walshin
4 days ago#227
Siriocaz posted...
Walshin posted...
Siriocaz posted...
What you say is pretty reasonable, and I'd ultimately agree with the notion that the game is not very well written, but Edelgard is still a "morally grey character". She does things that could be considered both good and bad, she has a grand ideal but leaves others' behind. That's "grey" as it can get.


You know, by twisting your reasoning enough, the exact same thing could be said of every dictator of the 20th century. Yes, even THAT guy.

Just sayin'.

Obviously? Everyone does good and bad things, including your cliché oppresive guys like Hitler and Mussolini.


Of course. Which is why a line must be drawn at some point. " If you do X, you won't be forgiven that easily ".

Saying that everybody does good and bad thing isn't wrong, it's just missing the point. You can find excuses for everyone, but you shouldn't. At some point you need to stop putting up with the s*** some people do. You, and the society you belong to, need to stop forgiving people who go too far.
Case in point, THAT guy ( which I leave intentionally vague because whatever example you're spontaneously thinking about, dear reader, is better than whatever I can come up with. Mine is Pol Pot, if you're interested )

Morals have never been about good vs evil, it's about what your society is willing to cope with before labelling you an unforgivable piece of s***.
I leave to everyone's discretion whether Edelgard qualifies or not. We don't all have the same morals or the same society, after all.

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#228
Walshin posted...
society

Societal norms can change in an instant, especially during wartime. In China, it was once considered shameful to your ancestors to get a haircut. Then the Manchurians came, killed everyone who thought that way, and even after being freed from Manchurian rule, no Chinese person ever feels that way anymore.
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.

User Info: FaroresWinds

FaroresWinds
4 days ago#229
Walshin posted...
Siriocaz posted...
Walshin posted...
Siriocaz posted...
What you say is pretty reasonable, and I'd ultimately agree with the notion that the game is not very well written, but Edelgard is still a "morally grey character". She does things that could be considered both good and bad, she has a grand ideal but leaves others' behind. That's "grey" as it can get.


You know, by twisting your reasoning enough, the exact same thing could be said of every dictator of the 20th century. Yes, even THAT guy.

Just sayin'.

Obviously? Everyone does good and bad things, including your cliché oppresive guys like Hitler and Mussolini.


Of course. Which is why a line must be drawn at some point. " If you do X, you won't be forgiven that easily ".

Saying that everybody does good and bad thing isn't wrong, it's just missing the point. You can find excuses for everyone, but you shouldn't. At some point you need to stop putting up with the s*** some people do. You, and the society you belong to, need to stop forgiving people who go too far.
Case in point, THAT guy ( which I leave intentionally vague because whatever example you're spontaneously thinking about, dear reader, is better than whatever I can come up with. Mine is Pol Pot, if you're interested )

Morals have never been about good vs evil, it's about what your society is willing to cope with before labelling you an unforgivable piece of s***.
I leave to everyone's discretion whether Edelgard qualifies or not. We don't all have the same morals or the same society, after all.

You speak wisely.

There is a great series of videos on YouTube from Harvard that is an entire lecture on Justice. It really makes you think and challenges what you thought may be right. I should look for it...

User Info: rukn

rukn
4 days ago#230
Edelgard actually manages to wreck Fodlan’s feudal system, defeats the militarised corrupt church that empowers the nobility, and eventually get rid of twistd with a 5 year medieval war. I think talk of her means not being worth these ends is overblown
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