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  3. Can We Stop Acting Like this Game Presents a Morally Gray Story Yet?(spoilers)

User Info: superxgaga

superxgaga
4 days ago#211
Chefcook90 posted...
Edelgard doesn't have motivations - she has IDEALS.

She's fighting a war to end all wars!
"Making the mother of all omelettes here, Dimitri! Can't do it without breaking a few eggs! I'm using crests as a business, to END crests as a business!"
Crest of Flame son! Used to play ball in the class of black eagle!
El, my dear, in order to prove that you are right, you must become stronger than anyone else.
More speed-wings and energy drops, m'Lady?
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#212
Ninjaed posted...
Not evil, but a villain.

Again, being a villain isn't as easy as you seem to think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO4T1EOz7-U
Historically, there have been plenty of heroes who did things that didn't jive with common morality. For example, Gilgamesh passed a law that people wanted marriage licenses had to sleep with him. King Arthur drowned babies in an attempt to kill baby Mordred. It's sad that people nowadays have been poisoned by the nonsense of American comic book superheroes, such as the Bat, and Disney's neutered versions of myths and legends.
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.

User Info: Walshin

Walshin
4 days ago#213
'I have a dream.' That one day every person in this empire will control their own destiny. A land of the truly free, dammit. A nation of action, not birthright! Ruled by strength, not crests! Where the nobility changes to suit the individual, not the other way around. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the people! Where every man is free to think - to act - for himself! f*** all these limp-dick cardinals and chickens*** dragon people. f*** this 24-hour chuch spew of trivia and crest bulls***! f*** Fodlanese pride! f*** the church! f*** ALL OF IT! The church is diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving it - we need to pull it out by the roots. Wipe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN! And from the ashes, a new Fodland will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak will be purged and the strongest will thrive - free to live as they see fit, they'll make Fodland great again! In my new Fodland, people will die and kill for what they BELIEVE! Not for crests, not for the chruch! Not for what they're told is right. Every man will be free to fight his own wars !

-Edelgard, probably
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#214
No, I was thinking more Gilgamesh (F/SN) than Armstrong. Again, in CF, Byleth is basically Enkidu, and Bernie is voiced by Mashu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssHDWxv5w08
In any case, Edie has a much more restrained personality than either of them.
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.

User Info: Simcambi

Simcambi
4 days ago#215
Chefcook90 posted...
Simcambi posted...
tldr; just because an antagonist has motivations doesn't make them "grey"

Edelgard doesn't have motivations - she has IDEALS.

She's fighting a war to end all wars!

"Making the mother of all omelettes here, Dimitri! Can't do it without breaking a few eggs! I'm using crests as a business, to END crests as a business!"

Wow that put some hair on my chest.
Seeing someone actually learn from an argument on the internet fills you with DETERMINATION
0189-8231-0190

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#216
And Ea is a divine sword of the heavens, used by Gilgamesh to commit deicide. Again, your point?
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.

User Info: I_Rule_U_Rock

I_Rule_U_Rock
4 days ago#217
Chefcook90 posted...
Edelgard doesn't have motivations - she has IDEALS.

She's fighting a war to end all wars!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0RMGid6vo

"Making the mother of all omelettes here, Dimitri! Can't do it without breaking a few eggs! I'm using crests as a business, to END crests as a business!"


What flipping ideals?

That people should rule themselves? No, the ending makes it very clear she has centralized power in Fodlan. That the believing in the Church makes people weak? Strange how endings refer to her restoring the Church and she approves of the idea of the Empire taking control of it.That manipulating history is wrong? She does it herself, with the Japanese text implying she erases the Church and Kingdom from history. Meritocracy? Sure, and how are people supposed to get ahead when Edelgard's taking credit for their accomplishments like Byleth's leadership. Corruption? She bribed people and made threats to gain support. Hell, doesn't even bat an eye at the thought of taking people hostage. You have you eunuch perform shady stuff in the shadows while she tries to orchestate things to her advantage, even splitting up the kingdom. Nobility? Restores nobility to her allies while Lorenz will hand power over to his and Byleth's son. Humanity? Strips people of humanity to use as weapons, and will sacrifice as many as need be to accomplish her goals.

Edelgard is everything she claims to hate, so what ideals is she talking about?.

User Info: LordSeymour77

LordSeymour77
4 days ago#218
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
Strange how endings refer to her restoring the Church and she approves of the idea of the Empire taking control of it.

Again, her enemy is the Church as a military and political body, not the faith. A Church without any of those things is fine.
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
She does it herself, with the Japanese text implying she erases the Church and Kingdom from history.

"fades from the people's mind" Nothing says that she directly erased anything. More like, the Kingdom is remembered as a brief rebel state, rather than a legitimate country.
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
Edelgard's taking credit for their accomplishments like Byleth's leadership

Again, like with Ferdie, Byleth is nominally an "adviser" with Edie getting the final say.
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
taking people hostage.

... You don't know anything about wartime politics, do you? That's not corrupt. That's standard.
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
splitting up the kingdom

No, that's the Alliance.
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
Restores nobility to her allies

Only for those who have earned it. Others have kept under house arrest or executed.
I_Rule_U_Rock posted...
Strips people of humanity to use as weapons

That's the Agarthans. Look at this this way. All the Demonic Beasts are aligned with the Agarthans, who at the time are aligned with the Adrestian Empire. Should one care about what other allied nations are doing? The Allies clearly didn't, in regards to the USSR during WWII.
If you want PC games outside of the tyranny of Steam, please try Jast USA and MangaGamer.

User Info: Siriocaz

Siriocaz
4 days ago#219
What you say is pretty reasonable, and I'd ultimately agree with the notion that the game is not very well written, but Edelgard is still a "morally grey character". She does things that could be considered both good and bad, she has a grand ideal but leaves others' behind. That's "grey" as it can get.
Think you can take me?! *Beats with assault rifle* Don't forget me!

User Info: Walshin

Walshin
4 days ago#220
Siriocaz posted...
What you say is pretty reasonable, and I'd ultimately agree with the notion that the game is not very well written, but Edelgard is still a "morally grey character". She does things that could be considered both good and bad, she has a grand ideal but leaves others' behind. That's "grey" as it can get.


You know, by twisting your reasoning enough, the exact same thing could be said of every dictator of the 20th century. Yes, even THAT guy.

Just sayin'.
(edited 4 days ago)
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