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User Info: rukn

rukn
4 days ago#21
CoolRed
Snip

It’s a historically contested term and became pejorative due to what it was historically attached to. I don’t agree that what Edelgard is doing falls within those historical parallels. If you go purely by your definition then you are right it is but I am okay with that since you are not using it to compare her actions to more exploitative empires and colonising nations.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/colonialism/

The confusion about the meaning of the term imperialism reflects the way that the concept has changed over time. Although the English word imperialism was not commonly used before the nineteenth century, Elizabethans already described the United Kingdom as “the British Empire.” As Britain began to acquire overseas dependencies, the concept of empire was employed more frequently. Imperialism was understood as a system of military domination and sovereignty over territories. The day to day work of government might be exercised indirectly through local assemblies or indigenous rulers who paid tribute, but sovereignty rested with the British. The shift away from this traditional understanding of empire was influenced by the Leninist analysis of imperialism as a system oriented towards economic exploitation. According to Lenin, imperialism was the necessary and inevitable result of the logic of accumulation in late capitalism. Thus, for Lenin and subsequent Marxists, imperialism described a historical stage of capitalism rather than a trans-historical practice of political and military domination. The lasting impact of the Marxist approach is apparent in contemporary debates about American imperialism, a term which usually means American economic hegemony, regardless of whether such power is exercised directly or indirectly (Young 2001).

User Info: VioletGekko

VioletGekko
4 days ago#22
rukn posted...
Drexciya posted...
rukn posted...
I wouldn’t regard Edelgard as an imperialist because she doesn’t use conquest as a tool to exploit the other nations for the primary benefit of the empire


...But this is literally EXACTLY what happens lmfao. Just because she dresses her actions up under the noble guise of "I'm smashing the crestiarchy!!!!!" doesn't take away from the fact that she invades every sovereign territory in Fodlan, massacres or enslaves it's citizens, then installs corrupt puppet leaders like Cornelia in every conquered territory to enforce her iron will and suppress any counter action taken against the Empire to solidify their political and military dominance across the whole continent.

Oh and lmfao at you calling invading foreign territories "interfering" and calling the Kingdom evil for their actions after the tragedy of Duscur in the rest of your garbage ass rambling that I won't humor by quoting in it's entirety. Did you forget that it was the Empire and their cohorts TWSITD that framed the innocent people of Duscur in an attempt to cover up their crimes of slaughtering the entire Faerghus royal family, and that those "trumped up charges" are entirely their doing?????

I seriously hope these delusional, disturbing mental gymnastics you're going through to defend and exonerate fictional fascists and imperialists doesn't cross over IRL for ACTUAL ones, but with the rise of people like Trump, Bolsonaro, and their ilk across the globe I fear I'd be sadly but unsurprisingly mistaken...

Of course Edelgard is a slaver and a fascist who has apparently been mass murdering civilians, she doesn’t actually care about Fodlan’s caste system . The Empire was apparently behind Duscur and the poor kingdom nobles had to genocide a whole country for it. Everywhere the empire apparently goes they apparently plant a new Cornelia.

The only one performing inane mental gymnastics is you. Also I get that you would feel validated if I were a fascist but you don't get to head canon reality. My point was that what she is doing ain’t imperialism, because it’s not her aim to create a second class citizenry to exploit. Her war is revolutionary not imperialist, because she is giving commoners the rights they have been denied for a millennia and granting the people in those territories full-fledged citizenship of the empire. The one vassal the empire has she grants independence to, these are not the actions of an imperialist. Lob your accusations at me if trump redistributes wealth, grants immigrants citizenship and protects the weak.


You need to read real history how imperialists control their territory. Vassal state is plenty in history of real earth. You're so uneducated. Korea and Vietnam were vassal states of imperial China just on top of my head. In modern time you have either Mexico or Canada being vassal state of US.

User Info: rukn

rukn
4 days ago#23
VioletGekko posted...
rukn posted...
Drexciya posted...
rukn posted...
I wouldn’t regard Edelgard as an imperialist because she doesn’t use conquest as a tool to exploit the other nations for the primary benefit of the empire


...But this is literally EXACTLY what happens lmfao. Just because she dresses her actions up under the noble guise of "I'm smashing the crestiarchy!!!!!" doesn't take away from the fact that she invades every sovereign territory in Fodlan, massacres or enslaves it's citizens, then installs corrupt puppet leaders like Cornelia in every conquered territory to enforce her iron will and suppress any counter action taken against the Empire to solidify their political and military dominance across the whole continent.

Oh and lmfao at you calling invading foreign territories "interfering" and calling the Kingdom evil for their actions after the tragedy of Duscur in the rest of your garbage ass rambling that I won't humor by quoting in it's entirety. Did you forget that it was the Empire and their cohorts TWSITD that framed the innocent people of Duscur in an attempt to cover up their crimes of slaughtering the entire Faerghus royal family, and that those "trumped up charges" are entirely their doing?????

I seriously hope these delusional, disturbing mental gymnastics you're going through to defend and exonerate fictional fascists and imperialists doesn't cross over IRL for ACTUAL ones, but with the rise of people like Trump, Bolsonaro, and their ilk across the globe I fear I'd be sadly but unsurprisingly mistaken...

Of course Edelgard is a slaver and a fascist who has apparently been mass murdering civilians, she doesn’t actually care about Fodlan’s caste system . The Empire was apparently behind Duscur and the poor kingdom nobles had to genocide a whole country for it. Everywhere the empire apparently goes they apparently plant a new Cornelia.

The only one performing inane mental gymnastics is you. Also I get that you would feel validated if I were a fascist but you don't get to head canon reality. My point was that what she is doing ain’t imperialism, because it’s not her aim to create a second class citizenry to exploit. Her war is revolutionary not imperialist, because she is giving commoners the rights they have been denied for a millennia and granting the people in those territories full-fledged citizenship of the empire. The one vassal the empire has she grants independence to, these are not the actions of an imperialist. Lob your accusations at me if trump redistributes wealth, grants immigrants citizenship and protects the weak.


You need to read real history how imperialists control their territory. Vassal state is plenty in history of real earth. You're so uneducated. Korea and Vietnam were vassal states of imperial China just on top of my head. In modern time you have either Mexico or Canada being vassal state of US.

I never said vassal states never existed????

User Info: CoolRed

CoolRed
4 days ago#24
rukn posted...
CoolRed
Snip

It’s a historically contested term and became pejorative due to what it was historically attached to. I don’t agree that what Edelgard is doing falls within those historical parallels. If you go purely by your definition then you are right it is but I am okay with that since you are not using it to compare her actions to more exploitative empires and colonising nations.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/colonialism/

The confusion about the meaning of the term imperialism reflects the way that the concept has changed over time. Although the English word imperialism was not commonly used before the nineteenth century, Elizabethans already described the United Kingdom as “the British Empire.” As Britain began to acquire overseas dependencies, the concept of empire was employed more frequently. Imperialism was understood as a system of military domination and sovereignty over territories. The day to day work of government might be exercised indirectly through local assemblies or indigenous rulers who paid tribute, but sovereignty rested with the British. The shift away from this traditional understanding of empire was influenced by the Leninist analysis of imperialism as a system oriented towards economic exploitation. According to Lenin, imperialism was the necessary and inevitable result of the logic of accumulation in late capitalism. Thus, for Lenin and subsequent Marxists, imperialism described a historical stage of capitalism rather than a trans-historical practice of political and military domination. The lasting impact of the Marxist approach is apparent in contemporary debates about American imperialism, a term which usually means American economic hegemony, regardless of whether such power is exercised directly or indirectly (Young 2001).

Leninism was so great that it directly lead into Stalinism, a form of government in which the russian people suffered under for years to come. I guess you're admiting that Edelgard's a borderline stalinist now

User Info: StellaLunaris

StellaLunaris
4 days ago#25
CoolRed posted...
Leninism was so great that it directly lead into Stalinism, a form of government in which the russian people suffered under for years to come. I guess you're admiting that Edelgard's a borderline stalinist now


And we didn't even get a cool ushanka hat!
https://society6.com/redpawdesigns
I draw stuff. Buy a pillow to support your butt AND my gaming backlog collection

User Info: rukn

rukn
4 days ago#26
StellaLunaris posted...
CoolRed posted...
Leninism was so great that it directly lead into Stalinism, a form of government in which the russian people suffered under for years to come. I guess you're admiting that Edelgard's a borderline stalinist now


And we didn't even get a cool ushanka hat!

Yeah what’s up with that! XD

User Info: rukn

rukn
4 days ago#27
CoolRed posted...
rukn posted...
CoolRed
Snip

It’s a historically contested term and became pejorative due to what it was historically attached to. I don’t agree that what Edelgard is doing falls within those historical parallels. If you go purely by your definition then you are right it is but I am okay with that since you are not using it to compare her actions to more exploitative empires and colonising nations.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/colonialism/

The confusion about the meaning of the term imperialism reflects the way that the concept has changed over time. Although the English word imperialism was not commonly used before the nineteenth century, Elizabethans already described the United Kingdom as “the British Empire.” As Britain began to acquire overseas dependencies, the concept of empire was employed more frequently. Imperialism was understood as a system of military domination and sovereignty over territories. The day to day work of government might be exercised indirectly through local assemblies or indigenous rulers who paid tribute, but sovereignty rested with the British. The shift away from this traditional understanding of empire was influenced by the Leninist analysis of imperialism as a system oriented towards economic exploitation. According to Lenin, imperialism was the necessary and inevitable result of the logic of accumulation in late capitalism. Thus, for Lenin and subsequent Marxists, imperialism described a historical stage of capitalism rather than a trans-historical practice of political and military domination. The lasting impact of the Marxist approach is apparent in contemporary debates about American imperialism, a term which usually means American economic hegemony, regardless of whether such power is exercised directly or indirectly (Young 2001).

Leninism was so great that it directly lead into Stalinism, a form of government in which the russian people suffered under for years to come. I guess you're admiting that Edelgard's a borderline stalinist now

No u

User Info: Zer0billion

Zer0billion
3 days ago#28
Edelgard topic #1,344,839
Maid Lysithea when?
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