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  3. So are we supposed to believe that Dimitri... *spoilers*

User Info: ZeroX91

ZeroX91
1 week ago#111
There is this thing called depersonalization, pretty common in people with ptsd. It's like you are just an observer to your own actions with no control. Pretty interesting from a psychological stand point, one of the many ways people's brains try to sheild themselves from their actions, can even see the change in people kinda like the lights go out.
Waving the flag is fun.
#112
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User Info: rukn

rukn
1 week ago#113
Oh lol !!! The Edelgard debate migrated to this topic

User Info: SC6

SC6
1 week ago#114
Esper69 posted...
Wow just wow. Empire split to 3 isnt rhea fault. Its just edelgard's BS propaganda. The kingdom wants autonomy from the empire and the church act as the mediator who grant it. Bandits are suppose to be slaughter lmao.


I thought you believe wars are bad? Why couldn't Loog and the rest of his supporters talk things out with the Emperor and the church? The Church can't get the Emperor to pass social reform but Rhea can convince the Emperor to recognize Loog's group as an independent state? If this doesn't raise any suspicion, I don't know what to say.

Ninjaed posted...
Seiros helped found the Empire, then waged war together with them in order to unite all of Fodlan. While the war itself lasted 60-ish years, Nemesis had already been active for much longer. Skirmishes, banditry, theft and more were rampant, which Seiros helped combat in the Empire before winning the war.


Which is clearly information control. I'm not going to say that the Agarthans and Nemesis are the good guys in this story, but there's obviously more to it than just what Rhea and the Church says. Agarthans being at least a 1100 years old civilization had more advanced magic than present day Fodlan. They clearly had a functioning society or else they wouldn't be able to nearly wipe out a physically stronger race. To take the Church at their word and assume Fodlan was just a wild free for fall is a bit iffy.

Ninjaed posted...
The Kingdom broke off the Empire 650-ish years later and fought for independance. The Church acted as a mediator at the end of the war to cease hostilities and have the winner of the conflict - the Kingdom - have its rights acknowledged.

but Edelgard and Lonato are wrong to use violence. Yet Loog and the Alliance get a pass?
EDIT: what happened to solving things peacefully?

Ninjaed posted...
Garreg Mach Monastery was founded 100 years after the end of the war against Nemesis. Its primary purpose was to hide the existence of the Holy Tomb and protect it, as it not only contained the "remains" of Sothis, it also served as an anti-missile defence system as well as a graveyard for dragonkind.

Its apparent purpose was to train and educate children of imperial nobles by an independant 3rd party. It did have a hidden purpose in teaching them to worship the Goddess and ascertain her words be respected in preparation for her rebirth - as the last time she died and humans fended for themselves, things didn't turn out quite alright (more than a century of utter chaos and war).


I'm referring to the Officer's academy and the construction of Fodlan Locket.
Btw you should really read up on that bit of history. It was Alliance forces and Empire forces that repelled the attack. The Church and Kingdom apparently sat on their hands. Then the Church proposed to educate all future leaders at Gareg Mach.

The school which is so expensive commoners need nobility sponsorship to ever be able to afford it. The school even willingly divides the social class. Commoners stay on the first floor with doors opening directly outside where as nobilities stay upstairs with rooms facing an indoor hallway.

Also keep in mind the officer academy classes are first divided based on your country. Why would you need to do that if your goal is for fostering peace? This is literally backwards from the real world.
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User Info: SC6

SC6
1 week ago#115
Ninjaed posted...
Because banditry is good? What?

Jeralt, Seteth, Shamir, Catherine, Cyril and many more have expressed disagreement or acknowledged their lack of faith. Yet they still live. The Church was attacked by Lonato (assassination plot) and the Western Church, retaliated in response - which is what any leader worse their salt would've done as diplomacy was already out of the question. In fact, she hinted in her supports discomfort over having to act cold-hearted like this, but is forced to due to her duty as a leader. Your point?

The one thing I didn't like at all was when she was interrogating the Western Church dudes, she didn't let them tell their side of the story despite them trying to state they'd been duped. By whom? For what reasons? What had they been told? We may never know... and the writers know that damn well. They basically forced Rhea to hold the Idiot Ball in one hand and the Villain Ball in the other there so that players don't learn too much about what's going on behind the scenes. In short, plot convenience. I hate that.


Saying you don't believe in the religion =/= voicing opposition.
None of the people you listed have ever voiced opposition save Seteth, who is routinely overruled by Rhea and in the end goes with exactly what she says. Rhea's explanation every time is, just listen to me and trust my decision.

I'm pointed this out in other topics. Lonato isn't anti religious. He's pretty faithful to the goddess. His rebellion is in retaliation to Rhea killing his son over Kingdom internal affairs. His son was accused of being involved in the plot to assassinate the king. He was captured by Catherine and delivered to Rhea and her knights and executed (probably with no solid evidence). Catherine who ran away and eventually joined the church because she's also an accused >_>

The Western church... uhh... I don't know what that's actually about. But yeah executing those who surrendered without letting them speak is pretty suspicious
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User Info: Ninjaed

Ninjaed
1 week ago#116
SC6 posted...
I thought you believe wars are bad? Why couldn't Loog and the rest of his supporters talk things out with the Emperor and the church? The Church can't get the Emperor to pass social reform but Rhea can convince the Emperor to recognize Loog's group as an independent state? If this doesn't raise any suspicion, I don't know what to say.

Who's to say Loog wasn't manipulated by TWSITD? Which he probably was btw. His mysterious retainer was incredibly talented, it's thanks to him Loog even won in the first place yet close to no records remain and he didn't want to be remembered. Pretty sketchy, especially considering TWSITD's history of pulling the strings.

Which is clearly information control. I'm not going to say that the Agarthans and Nemesis are the good guys in this story, but there's obviously more to it than just what Rhea and the Church says. Agarthans being at least a 1100 years old civilization had more advanced magic than present day Fodlan. They clearly had a functioning society or else they wouldn't be able to nearly wipe out a physically stronger race. To take the Church at their word and assume Fodlan was just a wild free for fall is a bit iffy.

That's not at all what the Church says. The Church teaches that Nemesis was blessed by the Goddess and saved Fodlan from whatever, but drowning in power drove him mad. Everything touching the war remains the same - with the exception of the 10 Elites.

What I said is information revealed at the very end of the Church and GD routes, when Rhea confesses the real truth. Humanity waged a war against Sothis (and lost). Sothis then had to use so much power to salvage the ravaged langs that she fell into a slumber - which TWSITD (the remnants of those who waged war against her) exploited to kill her during the Red Canyon by using Nemesis. After that, the bandit king had his fun and was eventually stopped decades later by the Empire and Seiros.

Seiros distorted the truth so that it fit the reality. These wars did happen, they were conducted by Nemesis & co. She simply turned a bandit king and his 10 goons into a tragic hero gone crazy stopped by his trusted companions whose bloodlines paved the way for nobility.

but Edelgard and Lonato are wrong to use violence. Yet Loog and the Alliance get a pass?
EDIT: what happened to solving things peacefully?

We don't know enough about this. I could speculate the Church tried to calm things down but I wasn't discussing speculations, only known facts. Unfortunately, we don't actually know much about this conflict. Why did Loog and so many others want to rebel against the Empire in the first place? Did they try diplomacy before resorting to violence? How was the Church involved? Were TWSITD pulling the strings?

Still, there's a key difference: Loog attacked the Empire and the Kingdom attacked the Empire (again) but the Alliance later gained indepedance from the Kingdom. Edelgard and Lonato attacked the Church directly. Obviously they'd defend themselves - unless you're suggesting they pleaded for a peaceful solution despite neither showing any willingness to reconsider killing Rhea?

I know about the bit of history concerning Fodlan's Locket. I also know the Kingdom is defending its own borders with Sreng, and that they're not fans of neither the Empire nor the Alliance (branched off the former, the latter branched off them). They were likely waiting to swoop in to reclaim the Alliance lands - like they did in the first place. As for the Church, it's said time and again they're lacking knights and is always dispatching them to defend villages and such.
#BringGoldenSunBack
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User Info: ZeroX91

ZeroX91
1 week ago#117
Your_Master posted...
Ein posted...
Your_Master posted...
He took the lives of child soldiers, most of which Edelgarde enlists in her desperation to conqurer Fodland. Self defense is not a crime, and Dimitri's "guilt" only goes to show that he's genuinely good at heart.

This is entirely headcanon. Dimitri never says they were child soldiers or that he was defending himself.


Wrong. Dimitri mentioned in a support that he had to fight the children he used to help train at the monestary. Also it would have been out of character for Dimitri to randomly kill children who had nothing to do with him. Dimitri makes it clear that he only kills those who get in his way of defeating the Empire. The only kind of children that would do so could only be child soldiers and given what Edelgarde is like it's not hard to imagine her enlisting child soldiers. Especially since those kids lived at the monestary around the time when it was attacked. Dimitri has always been about defending the weak so it's clear that you are the one making baseless headcanons.

Also points out that they became bandits using what he and anyone else who trained with them taught them making them far more dangerous than a farmer that picked up a pitchfork
Waving the flag is fun.

User Info: Ninjaed

Ninjaed
1 week ago#118
I'll concede the school fees are way too high and separating the students based on country is a tad dumb. Not to mention you can switch classes, so what's even the point? I'd say it's for gameplay reasons but I don't like such excuses, not matter how much sense they might make. And the academy is meant to influence the future nobility so commoners aren't a concern unless they're wealthy enough to have an impact. Still a trash move though.

In fact, separating them into their respecting houses is telling of what caused the events of this game: lack of communication. Students usually aren't talking to those outside of their houses at all. Even the 3 lords don't talk to each other except for the rival battles. Had they talked, they'd have come to the realisation they each want to combat oppression and rethink the way things are done witht he crest system and nobility. Rhea as well is victim of this absence of communication and trust. But I digress.

I'll deny however the school willingly dividing according to social classes. They've been pressured into doing it by the nobility of all 3 countries. Seteth reveals this information to you very early in the game. He adds that aside from that, they endeavour to avoid discrimination based on social status.

SC6 posted...

Saying you don't believe in the religion =/= voicing opposition.
None of the people you listed have ever voiced opposition save Seteth, who is routinely overruled by Rhea and in the end goes with exactly what she says. Rhea's explanation every time is, just listen to me and trust my decision.

I'm pointed this out in other topics. Lonato isn't anti religious. He's pretty faithful to the goddess. His rebellion is in retaliation to Rhea killing his son over Kingdom internal affairs. His son was accused of being involved in the plot to assassinate the king. He was captured by Catherine and delivered to Rhea and her knights and executed (probably with no solid evidence). Catherine who ran away and eventually joined the church because she's also an accused >_>

The Western church... uhh... I don't know what that's actually about. But yeah executing those who surrendered without letting them speak is pretty suspicious

Yeah, Rhea has communication and trust issues. Still, I've provided counter-examples and you a few examples so let's see...

About Lonato's son, he was executing for an assassination plot on Rhea's life. Publicly, they said it was becaus ehe was related to the Tragedy of Duscur. Since TWSITD have proven they can infiltrate even the Church, it's possible they gave fake reports and whatnot too. At any rate, it turns out it's not a proof of the Church's oppression.

Catherine, aka Cassandra Rubens Charon, was a suspect but it's never expanded upon. Depsite her criminal status, she was granted refuge. Lonato's son Christophe was her beloved (IIRC) but she decided that he should be brought to justice (implying there's sufficient incriminating evidence for her to even consider this).

--
Edit: almost forgot, it seems to me Rhea is probably degenerating. She's clinging to the hope she can see her mother again. It's evidenced by how she turns berserk when you switch sides to Edelgard, and during the last chapter of the Church route where she and everyone sharing her blood turn blood-crazed before she calms down thanks to Sothis's intervention.
#BringGoldenSunBack
We love the series for a reason, give it a try :)

User Info: SC6

SC6
1 week ago#119
Ninjaed posted...
I know about the bit of history concerning Fodlan's Locket. I also know the Kingdom is defending its own borders with Sreng, and that they're not fans of neither the Empire nor the Alliance (branched off the former, the latter branched off them). They were likely waiting to swoop in to reclaim the Alliance lands - like they did in the first place. As for the Church, it's said time and again they're lacking knights and is always dispatching them to defend villages and such.


They're lacking in knights because they're solving Fodlan's economic and social issues with the military.

Sure I guess the monsters are a millitary issues, but Officer's academy is supposed to raise competent military officers, also each country has a military. Most noble houses also have troops. The knights shouldn't be needed. Bandits are at its root social and economic issues and you can't just keep throwing police at it.

anyways my whole gripe with the church is despite Rhea saying she does things for peace. In its 1100 years of history, a lot of what the church did and does is quite contrary.
PSN - NovaSol6(PS3/VITA), GreenTea_Sama(PS4)
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User Info: Ninjaed

Ninjaed
1 week ago#120
SC6 posted...
Ninjaed posted...
I know about the bit of history concerning Fodlan's Locket. I also know the Kingdom is defending its own borders with Sreng, and that they're not fans of neither the Empire nor the Alliance (branched off the former, the latter branched off them). They were likely waiting to swoop in to reclaim the Alliance lands - like they did in the first place. As for the Church, it's said time and again they're lacking knights and is always dispatching them to defend villages and such.


They're lacking in knights because they're solving Fodlan's economic and social issues with the military.

Sure I guess the monsters are a millitary issues, but Officer's academy is supposed to raise competent military officers, also each country has a military. Most noble houses also have troops. The knights shouldn't be needed. Bandits are at its root social and economic issues and you can't just keep throwing police at it.

anyways my whole gripe with the church is despite Rhea saying she does things for peace. In its 1100 years of history, a lot of what the church did and does is quite contrary.

I wouldn't say that. 600+ years of peace before we start getting trouble with the Kingdom etc. Probably TWSITD's doing too. I agree sending the "police" while nobles tend to be content sitting and watching isn't the best move... but it's not like they can force them either?

The one thing I can't find any explanation for is the Agarthan technology. How on earth do they have access to automated magic turrets, doors and guided missiles? As well as perfect disguises, teleportation, artificial dragon hearts, resuscitation/revival casket (or whatever it's supposed to be)...
#BringGoldenSunBack
We love the series for a reason, give it a try :)
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