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  2. Fire Emblem: Three Houses
  3. If you can't look at each route in a vacuum, you have no business discussing FEH

User Info: Someguy1006

Someguy1006
2 days ago#21
I've played 2 routes in their entirety now. Claude and Edelgard's route. Even in a vacuum I don't really like Edelgard in her own route much.

In Chapter 17 of Edelgard's route her battle conversation with Dimitri is laughable. Dimitri asks her why she's conquering and killing and she tries to turn it around on him. She asks why he's reconquering and killing. I feel like they could have written a much better battle conversation since it's basically Edelgard responding 'no u' to Dimitri.
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(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: Binkster

Binkster
2 days ago#22
All of this is just showing that she condones the death of innocents for a goal that can be achieved through much more pacifist methods. And working with morally black doesn’t help her case, even if she plans to get rid of them later. Letting them have free reign while still killing innocents herself just solidified that her morals are not in tact.
"Not to sway your opinion, but... You? Me? Golden Deer? We could be great together." Claude von Reigan (FE:Three Houses)
Official Claude of FETH Board

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
2 days ago#23
Constructe posted...
RedSpiderLily posted...
All Edelgard did was a lot of unnecessary violence. Real change and social reform takes time and lots of it.

Out of curiosity, would you say the same about any revolution against tyranny? Was the American Revolution unnecessary violence?

Also I agree with TC for sure. The routes are 100% independent of each other and need to be looked at as individual stories. Information gleaned from other routes is helpful to get an idea of how Fodlan operates, but it can’t be used to make arguments as to why or why not characters made certain decisions in other routes

This, exactly.
Judging characters based on their actions in other routes - or by information you learn about them, other characters, or the world in other routes - is instant proof that you didn't understand the game.

It's also cool that two of America's defining wars - the Revolutionary and the Civil - both have very clear parallels in this game.
Revolutionary - freeing itself from a foreign power (War of the Eagle and the Lion)
Civil - Edelgard's war
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
2 days ago#24
Binkster posted...
All of this is just showing that she condones the death of innocents for a goal that can be achieved through much more pacifist methods. And working with morally black doesn’t help her case, even if she plans to get rid of them later. Letting them have free reign while still killing innocents herself just solidified that her morals are not in tact.

Oof.
Edelgard's route:
1. She doesn't condone the deaths of innocents, except Dimitri and Claude, which is an attempt to avoid war (deaths of many innocents). All of her actions as the Flame Emperor are attempts to mitigate loss of life as she pursues her goals, which are to remove Rhea from power and to unite the nation.
2. She has no reason to believe she can trust Dimitri or Claude with the information that would be required to come to a peaceful solution. She never receives a reason to believe so. Her lack of omniscience cannot be used to condemn her.
3. Rhea is far more morally black to Edelgard than TWSITD, and took down the last Emperor that tried to take her on alone. From Edelgard's perspective, Rhea is the much greater evil.
4. Edelgard doesn't kill innocents. The only ones who die by her axe are those that raise weapons against her.


Put away your little hate boner, it's unbecoming.
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
2 days ago#25
Someguy1006 posted...
I've played 2 routes in their entirety now. Claude and Edelgard's route. Even in a vacuum I don't really like Edelgard in her own route much.

In Chapter 17 of Edelgard's route her battle conversation with Dimitri is laughable. Dimitri asks her why she's conquering and killing and she tries to turn it around on him. She asks why he's reconquering and killing. I feel like they could have written a much better battle conversation since it's basically Edelgard responding 'no u' to Dimitri.

Dimitri wants peace while remaining separate/free, Edelgard wants peace while becoming united. Fundamentally, it's a no u situation. Peace is a secondary goal to both of them. Neither will back down, so one has to die.

It could have been written better though. Dimitri was poorly voiced for these lines imo... sounded fake-deepened.

It's kind of a "practice what you preach" situation. If Dimitri really wanted peace so badly, he didn't have to fight - Edelgard easily would have spared him had he submitted. Just look at Claude. But, Dimitri is as bullheaded as she is, and she has no reason to back down having not yet accomplished her goal of taking down Rhea.
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: Binkster

Binkster
2 days ago#26
Constructe posted...
RedSpiderLily posted...
All Edelgard did was a lot of unnecessary violence. Real change and social reform takes time and lots of it.

Out of curiosity, would you say the same about any revolution against tyranny? Was the American Revolution unnecessary violence?

Also I agree with TC for sure. The routes are 100% independent of each other and need to be looked at as individual stories. Information gleaned from other routes is helpful to get an idea of how Fodlan operates, but it can’t be used to make arguments as to why or why not characters made certain decisions in other routes

Well if we are talking about revolutions, let’s look at the Spanish Civil war, where Franco literally asked for the aid of the Nazi’s and Mussolini who had actively begun their anti Semitic speeches by this time with the Nuremburg laws and so forth. Many beieve that Spain was on the recovery after a tumultuous 30 years of political corruption. However, Franco’s own vendetta against the government (sound familiar) caused him to resort to extreme violence and corruption for what he believed to be a “greater good”. The end result? The death of around 1/10 of Spain’s population and another 15 years of political strife to rebuild a damaged economy from the war he caused.

Case and point, I don’t see that Edelgard had is as morally gray as people put her out to be.
"Not to sway your opinion, but... You? Me? Golden Deer? We could be great together." Claude von Reigan (FE:Three Houses)
Official Claude of FETH Board

User Info: GreenMage7

GreenMage7
2 days ago#27
Rethalwolf posted...
Bolded responses.
Did you even watch the cutscenes or read a single line of dialogue?


This conversation should have been over the second you "but sure"d my first argument. The fact that you have no problem with this means we will never come to common ground but fine.

There is a huge problem with your version of the events, where you just push everything onto the Slithers. In order for this to work, you must assume that Edelgard is an idiot at worst, or completely oblivious to what's going on around her around at best. Neither is a good look for a person whose end goal is to rule a continent.

Regardless of how much she knew about what the Slithers were doing at the moment, she knew what their goals were. And she does nothing about any of it despite having the knowledge to do so.

And saying "Byleth's choice to stand with Rhea". What was he supposed to do? Everything he knows about the Flame Emperor does nothing except paint them negatively. They are there to raid the Holy Tomb and announce as much, the tomb of Progenitor God that was living inside Byleth and granted them their power. What did Edelgard think was going to happen? Her teacher and classmates would just throw down their arms and let this masked individual with the huge force just do whatever they wanted? Again, you now have to assume Edelgard is an idiot. Which I wasn't willing to do.


I'm just saying don't get upset when a huge number of us are not okay with how she does things. Because even in a vacuum a lot of it is not okay.
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: SC6

SC6
2 days ago#28
Fresita posted...
well If Fódlan had better international relations between the three respective powers (well to a continental extent at least) Edelgard would've avoided way less bloodshed.
internartional affairs are a thing


Not wrong, but Fodlan keeping outsiders out isn't unwarranted as Almyra only makes military moves and Duscar wiped a royal family
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User Info: Binkster

Binkster
2 days ago#29
Rethalwolf posted...
Binkster posted...
All of this is just showing that she condones the death of innocents for a goal that can be achieved through much more pacifist methods. And working with morally black doesn’t help her case, even if she plans to get rid of them later. Letting them have free reign while still killing innocents herself just solidified that her morals are not in tact.

Oof.
Edelgard's route:
1. She doesn't condone the deaths of innocents, except Dimitri and Claude, which is an attempt to avoid war (deaths of many innocents). All of her actions as the Flame Emperor are attempts to mitigate loss of life as she pursues her goals, which are to remove Rhea from power and to unite the nation.
2. She has no reason to believe she can trust Dimitri or Claude with the information that would be required to come to a peaceful solution. She never receives a reason to believe so. Her lack of omniscience cannot be used to condemn her.
3. Rhea is far more morally black to Edelgard than TWSITD, and took down the last Emperor that tried to take her on alone. From Edelgard's perspective, Rhea is the much greater evil.
4. Edelgard doesn't kill innocents. The only ones who die by her axe are those that raise weapons against her.


Put away your little hate boner, it's unbecoming.

Why does she hate Rhea as much when TWSITD are literally the ones who performed the crest implantation on her? Rhea is protecting more people and providing aid to many people, even being benevolent to those who are atheists to the church itself. She only turns berated when people intentionally defile the church, such as chapter 3 and 4, and 11. The only harm she does without ethical reason is implementing the crest of flames into artificial humans, who actually end up living happy lives when they develop emotion.

Edelgard is clearly a little unhinged, and rightfully so after her childhood. However, that doesn’t mean her actions are justified. And yes she really does condone the deaths of innocents if she doesn’t make an active effort to stop what TWSITD are doing. Just saying something is wrong doesn’t mean she did something about it.
"Not to sway your opinion, but... You? Me? Golden Deer? We could be great together." Claude von Reigan (FE:Three Houses)
Official Claude of FETH Board

User Info: MechaFlo

MechaFlo
2 days ago#30
GreenMage7 posted...
Rethalwolf posted...
Bolded responses.
Did you even watch the cutscenes or read a single line of dialogue?


This conversation should have been over the second you "but sure"d my first argument. The fact that you have no problem with this means we will never come to common ground but fine.

There is a huge problem with your version of the events, where you just push everything onto the Slithers. In order for this to work, you must assume that Edelgard is an idiot at worst, or completely oblivious to what's going on her around at best. Neither is a good look for a person who's end goal is to rule a continent.

Regardless of how much she knew about what the Slithers were doing at the moment, she knew what their goals were. And she does nothing about any of it despite having the knowledge to do so.

And saying "Byleth's choice to stand with Rhea". What was he supposed to do? Everything he knows about the Flame Emperor does nothing except paint them negatively. They are there to raid the Holy Tomb and announce as much, the tomb of Progenitor God that was living inside Byleth and granted them their power. What did Edelgard think was going to happen? Her teacher and classmates would just throw down their arms and let this masked individual with the huge force just do whatever they wanted? Again, you now have to assume Edelgard is an idiot. Which I wasn't willing to do.


I'm just saying don't get upset when a huge number of us are not okay with how she does things. Because even in a vacuum a lot of it is not okay.


Yeah. Honestly I find the Edelgard route very hard to justify in story with Byleth sideing with Edelgard considering she really doesn't make an effort to explain herself, and that the party knows by that point you can make monsters with those crest stones.
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  3. If you can't look at each route in a vacuum, you have no business discussing FEH