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  3. If you can't look at each route in a vacuum, you have no business discussing FEH

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
2 days ago#11
Fresita posted...
well If Fódlan had better international relations between the three respective powers (well to a continental extent at least) Edelgard would've avoided way less bloodshed.
internartional affairs are a thing


The powers were already in an uneasy peace maintained only by the church. By excising the church, war was inevitable unless the three were united. Edelgard could do that by, say, assassinating their leaders and having the blame go to the church.
Even if she died in the process, this would be enough to cause the nation to distrust Garreg Mach and the church.
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."

User Info: RedSpiderLily

RedSpiderLily
2 days ago#12
All Edelgard did was a lot of unnecessary violence. Real change and social reform takes time and lots of it.

User Info: Fresita

Fresita
2 days ago#13
Rethalwolf posted...
The powers were already in an uneasy peace maintained only by the church. By excising the church, war was inevitable unless the three were united. Edelgard could do that by, say, assassinating their leaders and having the blame go to the church.
Even if she died in the process, this would be enough to cause the nation to distrust Garreg Mach and the church.


I'd rather say that the unease was caused mainly by those who slither since they were the ones causing trouble in the name of the empire like in house Ordelia and Lysithea's situation

If any, Edelgard is just ignorant to what is really happening and made a decision based on ignorance and pointing that is not hating on Edelgard

The church was present in the three regions, the eastern church being completely irrelevant and the western church having their own situation handled by Rhea, regardless, neither Rhea nor the church seem to have a say in the relations between each kingdom, but the incidence of the Slitherers wrong doing does (as we see in the tragedy of duscur orchestrated by the slitherers and Edelgard knowing all along, what they did in House Ordelia in the name of the empire, Cornelia in Arianrhod)
Sorry for bad english , I try my best

User Info: Constructe

Constructe
2 days ago#14
RedSpiderLily posted...
All Edelgard did was a lot of unnecessary violence. Real change and social reform takes time and lots of it.

Out of curiosity, would you say the same about any revolution against tyranny? Was the American Revolution unnecessary violence?

Also I agree with TC for sure. The routes are 100% independent of each other and need to be looked at as individual stories. Information gleaned from other routes is helpful to get an idea of how Fodlan operates, but it can’t be used to make arguments as to why or why not characters made certain decisions in other routes
Did you hear about Pluto? That's messed up
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: GreenMage7

GreenMage7
2 days ago#15
Cool, let's look at Edelgard's route in a vacuum.

She is the Flame Emperor, and seeks to have the people who will be the leaders of the other nations killed by bandits despite having no proof they will oppose her. No concrete evidence. This is straight up murder.

She seeks to commit theft by staging an assassination attempt and causing panic. While doing so her people (not even the Slithers) kidnap Flayn and end up nearly killing Manuela. They also plant an unstable psychopathic killer in the monastery posing as someone else.

Later, this psychopathic killer does what psychopathic killers do. Nope, totally unpreventable.

She then eggs on Byleth to seek vengeance knowing that it is a trap to dispose of them.

And lastly, she breaks into the Holy Tomb while her teacher and classmates are there putting them in direct danger without warning.

Do I have enough reasons to disagree with her methods yet?

Should I dig deeper for more?

I really appreciate Edelgard existing as a character in this game. I'm okay with them giving her a happy ending despite her methods. I think her endgame is just. But her methods of achieving it I just cannot agree with.


Edit: Spoiler tags.
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: Fresita

Fresita
2 days ago#16
Constructe posted...
Out of curiosity, would you say the same about any revolution against tyranny? Was the American Revolution unnecessary violence?


Rhea is not a tyrant mind you
Sorry for bad english , I try my best

User Info: MrPerson01

MrPerson01
2 days ago#17
Doesn't matter what she thought, hiring bandits to kill Dimitri, Claude, and other innocent nobles at the beginning of the game? That is pure evil, no matter how you try to spin it with the means at the end (it's dumb to think that the others in their countries would not revolt), and is consistent with every route.

As for Jeralt's death, she was knowingly harboring a killer within her house. That means she was willingly complicit in said death since she withheld information from everyone else.

User Info: Constructe

Constructe
2 days ago#18
Fresita posted...
Constructe posted...
Out of curiosity, would you say the same about any revolution against tyranny? Was the American Revolution unnecessary violence?


Rhea is not a tyrant mind you

Maybe not, but sometimes revolution is necessary, if enough people of a nation decide that enough is enough. It’s fairly similar in that regard.

The bottom line is, Edelgard (and most of the Empire and half of the Alliance) wanted to break from the power of the church over the people of Fodlan. It wasn’t going to happen peacefully, and Edelgard did what had to be done to accomplish that.
Did you hear about Pluto? That's messed up

User Info: Rethalwolf

Rethalwolf
2 days ago#19
GreenMage7 posted...
Cool, let's look at Edelgard's route in a vacuum.

She is the Flame Emperor, and seeks to have the people who will be the leaders of the other nations killed by bandits despite having no proof they will oppose her. No concrete evidence. This is straight up murder. I would say political assassination, but sure.

She seeks to commit theft by staging an assassination attempt and causing panic. While doing so her people (not even the Slithers) kidnap Flayn and end up nearly killing Manuela. They also plant an unstable psychopathic killer in the monastery posing as someone else. All of this is false. The staged assassination, theft, kidnapping, AND planting are all 100% TWSITD, not at all influenced or even known by Edelgard. All she does or even knows about is giving her uncle command of the Death Knight - he had command of DK for the theft as well, but DK refused to listen to TWSITD at the time.

Later, this psychopathic killer does what psychopathic killers do. Nope, totally unpreventable. Again, that's not on Edelgard. TWSITD are positioning to defeat Rhea, to Edelgard's knowledge.

She then eggs on Byleth to seek vengeance knowing that it is a trap to dispose of them. Again, she didn't know it was a trap, she guessed it would be - and warned Byleth of the possibility - her plan was to dispose of Kronya and Solon, as evidenced by her prior discussion with them as the Flame Emperor.

And lastly, she breaks into the Holy Tomb while her teacher and classmates are there putting them in direct danger without warning. She only threatened those who stood against her - Byleth's choice to stand with Rhea (her sworn enemy) then is the only reason they fight.

Do I have enough reasons to disagree with her methods yet? You can disagree, but all of your reasons are wrong.

Should I dig deeper for more?

I really appreciate Edelgard existing as a character in this game. I'm okay with them giving her a happy ending despite her methods. I think her endgame is just. But her methods of achieving it I just cannot agree with.


Edit: Spoiler tags.


Bolded responses.
Did you even watch the cutscenes or read a single line of dialogue?
"The point of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the enemy die for his."
(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: Fresita

Fresita
2 days ago#20
Constructe posted...
Maybe not, but sometimes revolution is necessary, if enough people of a nation decide that enough is enough. It’s fairly similar in that regard.

The bottom line is, Edelgard (and most of the Empire and half of the Alliance) wanted to break from the power of the church over the people of Fodlan. It wasn’t going to happen peacefully, and Edelgard did what had to be done to accomplish that.


There are regions that aren't under the power of the church and are in fact conquered by other regions like Brigid with the Empire, no, it was not a necessary revolution since believing in the goddess was optional once you see there are characters like Shamir and Petra, Petra expressing how she completely believes in different Gods and Dedue telling mercedes he prays to different Gods

Discrimination towards them is a human creation if that's what you mean it should be abolished since nobility is a concept created by human society
Sorry for bad english , I try my best
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