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  3. As much as I love Edelgard, I have to admit it: she's wrong.

User Info: EmrelGuy

EmrelGuy
2 days ago#251
It’s explicitly stated and heavily implied the church has the majority of Fodlan under its thumb.

User Info: Tenzen12

Tenzen12
2 days ago#252
SC6 posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
SC6 posted...
Rhea is the go to person for solving your problems. The church gave the Kingdom and Alliance their sovereignty from the Empire


Not really, they just negotiated the terms for a peace treaty between the two. The only reason it got to that point is because the Empire failed to beat and reintegrate the kingdom.

Church had nothing to do with the Alliance, the Empire was just lost the war against them.


In Imperial Year 751, the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus seceded from the Empire after winning the War of the Eagle and Lion. The Church crowned Faerghus's first king, Loog of House Blaiddyd, and granted his nation autonomy. In 801, the region of Leicester rebelled against the Empire, and the Kingdom took the opportunity to occupy the region. In 861, the death of King Klaus I led his three sons to partition the Kingdom into three parts, with each of them ruling a part as an archduke. The death of the archduke of Leicester in 881 gave the Leicester lords the chance to form an alliance rather than accept his heir, sparking the Crescent Moon War. In 901, the war ended with the founding of the Leicester Alliance under the leadership of the influential Duke of Riegan.


Oh nevermind I remembered it's the church occupying Leicester.
Not a minor influence when they're impacting all of Fodlan.


Somehow I see zero correlation between quote and your comment. It literally sais Faerghus occupied Aliance. All church did is aknowledged Faerghus sovereignty sixty years before that.

User Info: Vayu_The_End

Vayu_The_End
2 days ago#253
EmrelGuy posted...
It’s explicitly stated and heavily implied the church has the majority of Fodlan under its thumb.


Where?
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User Info: SC6

SC6
2 days ago#254
Vayu_The_End posted...
As I've stated before, it only got to that point because the Empire lost the war. The Church just helped negotiate terms for peace.

Church needs considerable amount of influence to do this though
and not just be a passive bystander some people like to claim

Rhea's influence and authority gets down played way too much.

If the Church has minor influence, Lonato's rebellion should've been a Kingdom affair. The Church would've asked Dimitri and Rodrigue to deal with it and just focus on the Western Church.

But they sent their own military in without needing to consult the Crown Prince or the King Regent.
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User Info: Reimys

Reimys
2 days ago#255
Vayu_The_End posted...
EmrelGuy posted...
It’s explicitly stated and heavily implied the church has the majority of Fodlan under its thumb.


Where?

That's only in claims by Edelgard about how the church is the shadow ruler of the continent, but she herself is getting information from suspect sources without considering it fully. Historical accounts and in practice seem to point to otherwise; the Knights of Seiros are hardly a huge force, and certainly not capable to repelling any of the countries' armies in outright war until they start pulling in support from the other countries. It's good for internal peacekeeping and putting down minor rebellions, little more.

Any power the church has is soft, and what people are willing to give to them.
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(edited 2 days ago)

User Info: Airship_Canon

Airship_Canon
2 days ago#256
chughes724 posted...
I’m a big Edelgard fan. Love her character, and I totally understand her motivations. I don’t think she’s evil at all. However, I can’t use that as an excuse. She is entirely wrong in the story.
False.

The problem is how she goes about achieving it. Rather than tell everyone what she went through, and try to change the system from within, she declares war.
Because anything besides starting a war will not do anything? Also, exposing the truth gets you branded a heretic and your head lopped off. Rhea's extremely execution happy. Reminder of what happens on Chapter 3 and 4.

Why?! What exactly has Rhea and the Church done, other than help people? She calls her a tyrant, but how does that work?
Literally control the continent with an iron fist, and execute at the first sign of dissent. Sure she lets non-believers hang around, but question her-or her authority and the knights are coming for your head.

The worst thing Rhea did was lie about the origins of the Church and Crests. Ok, how is that bad? She took the worst event of her life, and made it less gruesome, likely to honor her mother and fallen friends. How would knowing the actual events change anything for the common people? They likely wouldn’t care.
What happened to Sothis was literally Retaliation for genocide-- why the f*** would a nation that has nuclear weapons need dragon swords and magical balls of hit twice if they're at their full might? No, the Dragons struck first-- the information from the Golden Deer route comes from her. It's not trustworthy at all.

She exalted the crests, creating a power structure entirely centered around them. The crests themselves are hardly an issue, and yeah, they wouldn't care- but she made them care by causing the system to be created.

Not to mention her human experimentation and s***. Edel route ending proves she lies about why Byleth had the Crest of Flames. There's nothing trustworthy about her at all.

And sure, she can be ruthless. But only against the people who attack her first.
Lonato wasn't- the scenes with Ashe on BL prove that no, the Knights were moving first. His only crime was speaking out against her power structure-- which ultimately cements that yes, it takes a war to topple the Regime.

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User Info: Tenzen12

Tenzen12
2 days ago#257
SC6 posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
As I've stated before, it only got to that point because the Empire lost the war. The Church just helped negotiate terms for peace.

Church needs considerable amount of influence to do this though
and not just be a passive bystander some people like to claim

Rhea's influence and authority gets down played way too much.

If the Church has minor influence, Lonato's rebellion should've been a Kingdom affair. The Church would've asked Dimitri and Rodrigue to deal with it and just focus on the Western Church.

But they sent their own military in without needing to consult the Crown Prince or the King Regent.


I think it's pretty self-evident, proper authorities were contacted. I mean sure we don't have any hard proof, but that should be common sense. I am also pretty sure that Kingdom nobility find preferable not waste own resources to clean church mess if they can help it.

User Info: Vayu_The_End

Vayu_The_End
2 days ago#258
Airship_Canon posted...
Literally control the continent with an iron fist, and execute at the first sign of dissent. Sure she lets non-believers hang around, but question her-or her authority and the knights are coming for your head.


Complete nonsense. The only instances of Rhea retaliating is from people who raised a military force against her. The Western Church was well known as being an anti Rhea sect of the church, but were largely left to their own devices.

Airship_Canon posted...
What happened to Sothis was literally Retaliation for genocide-- why the f*** would a nation that has nuclear weapons need dragon swords and magical balls of hit twice if they're at their full might? No, the Dragons struck first-- the information from the Golden Deer route comes from her. It's not trustworthy at all.


Because the nukes dont win a war on their own?
Rhea, as a single dragon. Is able to stop the nuke. Then they need to wait another month to launch one again.

If the nukes are allegedly end all be all in the church route. Seiros would have lost as well as Edelgard.

Airship_Canon posted...
She exalted the crests, creating a power structure entirely centered around them. The crests themselves are hardly an issue, and yeah, they wouldn't care- but she made them care by causing the system to be created.


No it didnt. The Crest system exists because they are instruments of power and directly affect a human's abilities. Humans dont need an excuse to misuse their power to subjugate others. One of the first things we used guns for is to subjugate other humans.

Airship_Canon posted...
Not to mention her human experimentation and s***.


She created them and when they were unable to channel Sothis. Let them live their lives. It ain't good, but it's not "CHILD EXPERIMENTATION!".

The only actual instance of that was at their mother's request so that said child didnt die.

Do you ever tire of spewing out false information?
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User Info: Fresita

Fresita
2 days ago#259
EmrelGuy posted...
It’s explicitly stated and heavily implied the church has the majority of Fodlan under its thumb.


Thats a headcanon and can't be used for argumentation
Sorry for bad english , I try my best

User Info: Vayu_The_End

Vayu_The_End
2 days ago#260
Tenzen12 posted...
SC6 posted...
Vayu_The_End posted...
As I've stated before, it only got to that point because the Empire lost the war. The Church just helped negotiate terms for peace.

Church needs considerable amount of influence to do this though
and not just be a passive bystander some people like to claim

Rhea's influence and authority gets down played way too much.

If the Church has minor influence, Lonato's rebellion should've been a Kingdom affair. The Church would've asked Dimitri and Rodrigue to deal with it and just focus on the Western Church.

But they sent their own military in without needing to consult the Crown Prince or the King Regent.


I think it's pretty self-evident, proper authorities were contacted. I mean sure we don't have any hard proof, but that should be common sense. I am also pretty sure that Kingdom nobility find preferable not waste own resources to clean church mess if they can help it.


Not only that. The Kingdom gave the Church that influence in exchange for them acknowledging their kingdom as legitimate.

The Church only has this much influence there. In the Empire, their influence is near nonexistent and in the alliance, it varies depending on what house in the Alliance you are talking about.
We are now in the era of Spongebob:
Get ready for Battle for Bikini Bottom remake.
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  3. As much as I love Edelgard, I have to admit it: she's wrong.