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  3. Where did the misperception that PS1 > N64 originate?

User Info: Jag85

Jag85
3 years ago#71
A better example of N64 framerate would be F-Zero X, which ran at a smooth 60 fps. In comparison, Wipeout 2097 on the PS1 ran at 30 fps.

User Info: Shamrock99

Shamrock99
3 years ago#72
Jag85 posted...
A better example of N64 framerate would be F-Zero X, which ran at a smooth 60 fps. In comparison, Wipeout 2097 on the PS1 ran at 30 fps.

I don't even necessarily agree with that. The tracks in F-Zero X are extremely bare in comparison to the Wipeout games. Bare minimalistic courses with a bunch of tiny vehicles on it is something I expect N64 to pull off at 60fps. Hell, the bonus version of the original Ridge Racer that came packed in with Ridge Racer Type 4 ran at 60fps and it has a bit more detail in the tracks then F-Zero X or at least the same amount of geometry at the very least.

When one looks at footage of Zero X it's pretty obvious to see why it runs at 60fps. Meanwhile, plenty of N64's cream of the crop games have far more complex graphics yet run at 20fps or less, regularly.

N20: Nitrous Oxide is a PS1 racer that also runs at 60fps.
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User Info: Jag85

Jag85
3 years ago#73
There are plenty of other N64 games which run at 60 fps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snu7UipEIj4

Either way, it all comes down to the graphical features used. N64 games used a bunch of graphical features the PS1 is incapable of, such as high-accuracy polygons, anti-aliasing, tri-linear mip-mapping, perspective-correct texture mapping, and Z-buffering. The N64 had a Turbo3D microcode that disables these features and multiplies the N64's raw processing power, guaranteeing 60fps at all times. However, Nintendo prevented the use of the Turbo3D microcode, and the only known game to use it was Dark Rift (apparently without Nintendo's knowledge).

User Info: ROD

ROD
3 years ago#74
Jag85 posted...
Nintendo prevented the use of the Turbo3D microcode, and the only known game to use it was Dark Rift (apparently without Nintendo's knowledge).


Why would Dark Rift need it?

I had the game, it was nothing special IMO
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User Info: Jag85

Jag85
3 years ago#75
ROD posted...
Jag85 posted...
Nintendo prevented the use of the Turbo3D microcode, and the only known game to use it was Dark Rift (apparently without Nintendo's knowledge).


Why would Dark Rift need it?

I had the game, it was nothing special IMO

There was nothing special about the Turbo3D microcode other than giving a big performance boost (500-600K polys/s at 60fps), at the expense of downgrading the graphical quality to PS1 standards (normal-accuracy polygons, no filtering, no anti-aliasing, no perspective-correct mapping, no Z-buffering). That's why Nintendo discouraged it.

User Info: Shamrock99

Shamrock99
3 years ago#76
There's even more PS1 games that run at 60fps. I know of a list that I will post later (I'm on lunch break at jury duty). It also has the number if 60fps Saturn titles. N64 is overall the more powerful machine, but the bottlenecks in the hardware really bog down its performance.
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User Info: Jag85

Jag85
3 years ago#77
Shamrock99 posted...
There's even more PS1 games that run at 60fps. I know of a list that I will post later (I'm on lunch break at jury duty). It also has the number if 60fps Saturn titles. N64 is overall the more powerful machine, but the bottlenecks in the hardware really bog down its performance.

The PS1 had an exponentially larger library than the N64, so of course it will have more 60fps games. Like I said above, the N64 could easily produce 60fps games with PS1-quality graphics by using the N64's Turbo3D mode, but it was Nintendo who forced developers to avoid using the Turbo3D mode.

User Info: -0melette-

-0melette-
2 years ago#78
That Turbo3d mode stuff is interesting, had no idea the N64 was capable of that. Too bad Nintendo discouraged it.
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User Info: spiffyone

spiffyone
2 years ago#79
-0melette- posted...
That Turbo3d mode stuff is interesting, had no idea the N64 was capable of that. Too bad Nintendo discouraged it.


Eh, it was a choice between PS1 level graphics or a good deal better than PS1 graphics. IMHO, Nintendo made the right call there, as a big selling point of N64 was that it was the "powerhouse" of that gen. I mean, if Nintendo allowed for rampant Turbo3D mode use, then that "powerhouse" image would have been compromised. Not enough to destroy it completely, but enough to harm it. And against PS1's image of "largest, most varied game library" in addition to the type of media used being CD-ROM (so more data capacity than carts, allowing for more FMV and the idea that the games would be "larger"), there wasn't really much for Nintendo to market other than "Nintendo games, including Rare's" (Rare being a Nintendo second party at the time) and "best graphics/effects".

In essence, Nintendo really couldn't compete in terms of quantity+quality, so they had to compete based on perceptions of having better/higher quality ("our games play the best and look the best"). It didn't give them the win (or anywhere close to it), but without that strategy they likely wouldn't have gotten as far as they did. I mean, honestly, once you move beyond the Nintendo and Rare developed games the N64 library becomes quite barren with a few exceptions (some Acclaim games, and cult stuff like Goemon). Sony's own IP or IP they didn't own that was still then closely associated with their brand (Crash, Spyro) weren't as well received as Nintendo's, but Sony's games were just the surface of the incredibly deep PS1 library that had at least a couple or handful of good games in just about every single genre.

User Info: Revegelance

Revegelance
2 years ago#80
Kinda makes me wonder why they had the Turbo3D mode at all, if they didn't want it to be used.
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