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User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#81
Skode24 posted...
Dark Symphony posted...
Equipping different movesets (let's be real, that's what you're doing) was originally implemented to draw attention away from the clones in DW7.

It was a mistake. Now they've painted themselves into a corner. When people become fans of movesets and not characters, uniqueness becomes a detriment which is... just absurd. Now characters have identity crisis issues and dev efforts to make them unique upset people. What a terrible situation.


Completely agree with everything said here - if a character is NOT unique what is the point of them being playable. Everyone has faves so they're all here with some unique moves as the stop gap so they can gradually make them all standout as individuals and not just fancy skins for weapons - not ideal but I get it, to lament actually having exclusive individuality to movesets is bewildering to me.

I guess it's the newer fans coming on board which only know of this weird weapon switch which has in all fairness been there for years now and looking like a cheap mod for meme images (why can Xiao Qiao use the Club five times her bodyweight and Ding Feng spin about gracefully with the fans?). Even the on disc ones feel copy pasted - Xing Cai had the sword and shield, she's a bodyguard and adopts as such a physical moveset and stance... Her mother uses it too, complete with frilly dress that would HINDED her using it yet here we are.

Koei have backed themselves into a corner - I remember always watching streams of DW7 and 8 and it just being people using their fave female with Lu Bu Halberd as it was OP. It looks ridiculous but this is what Koei had created. Skins for weapons formally known as unique characters. I accept it's a nessicity with the new combat system and ability to use DLC but people are wanting not just weapon switch but no unique moves anymore. I'm deeply concerned by this.


The conflicting approach is a very potent point to bring up. Everyone can use any weapon so the characters are just cosplayers. But then weapons are added and Koei positions them as weapons returning for specific characters so now what's the goal? Do we want characters with their identity strengthened by their combat style? (Which, to me, is a no duh for a hack and slash game) or is this game about grabbing a weapon and getting intimate with like in Dark Souls? Those things conflict.

User Info: SiegvonWal

SiegvonWal
1 month ago#82
Dark Symphony posted...

The conflicting approach is a very potent point to bring up. Everyone can use any weapon so the characters are just cosplayers. But then weapons are added and Koei positions them as weapons returning for specific characters so now what's the goal? Do we want characters with their identity strengthened by their combat style? (Which, to me, is a no duh for a hack and slash game) or is this game about grabbing a weapon and getting intimate with like in Dark Souls? Those things conflict.


I think Koei's trying to merge the old style of each character being unique (even if only in a few chains of moves) and the new style of weapon swapping. Personally, I'm cool with this since that meant (I am using the past tense to refer to DW7-8) I could switch out weapons I didn't like (such as Xu Chu's club) with a weapon I did like (which was a rapier, when I was playing as Xu Chu in a Wei story mission).

I would rather DW Koei go old school like how SW Koei is, but if that train has left the station and can't be recalled then I'm fine with weapon swapping.

However, I would like the favored users to have unique moves. Especially since this means (at least potentially) for every unique-ish moveset there's a corresponding generic moveset for non-favored users. Like the Generic War Fan is somewhat distinct from Sima Yi, Zhuge Liang, or Dan's versions of the weapon even if just by a single move chain. I'd rather favored characters have all their chains be unique (like Sima Yi have his purple lasers, Zhuge Liang his ether lasers, and maybe Dan have fire balls or something) than just one chain, but as-is I'm cool with it since they're unique enough to warrant different playstyles.
Ya iz russki bot

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
1 month ago#83
Skode24 posted...
Dark Symphony posted...
Equipping different movesets (let's be real, that's what you're doing) was originally implemented to draw attention away from the clones in DW7.

It was a mistake. Now they've painted themselves into a corner. When people become fans of movesets and not characters, uniqueness becomes a detriment which is... just absurd. Now characters have identity crisis issues and dev efforts to make them unique upset people. What a terrible situation.


Completely agree with everything said here - if a character is NOT unique what is the point of them being playable. Everyone has faves so they're all here with some unique moves as the stop gap so they can gradually make them all standout as individuals and not just fancy skins for weapons - not ideal but I get it, to lament actually having exclusive individuality to movesets is bewildering to me.

I guess it's the newer fans coming on board which only know of this weird weapon switch which has in all fairness been there for years now and looking like a cheap mod for meme images (why can Xiao Qiao use the Club five times her bodyweight and Ding Feng spin about gracefully with the fans?). Even the on disc ones feel copy pasted - Xing Cai had the sword and shield, she's a bodyguard and adopts as such a physical moveset and stance... Her mother uses it too, complete with frilly dress that would HINDED her using it yet here we are.

Koei have backed themselves into a corner - I remember always watching streams of DW7 and 8 and it just being people using their fave female with Lu Bu Halberd as it was OP. It looks ridiculous but this is what Koei had created. Skins for weapons formally known as unique characters. I accept it's a nessicity with the new combat system and ability to use DLC but people are wanting not just weapon switch but no unique moves anymore. I'm deeply concerned by this.


The conflicting approach is a very potent point to bring up. Everyone can use any weapon so the characters are just cosplayers. But then weapons are added and Koei positions them as weapons returning for specific characters so now what's the goal? Do we want characters with their identity strengthened by their combat style? (Which, to me, is a no duh for a hack and slash game) or is this game about grabbing a weapon and getting intimate with like in Dark Souls? Those things conflict.
SiegvonWal posted...
I would rather DW Koei go old school like how SW Koei is, but if that train has left the station and can't be recalled then I'm fine with weapon swapping.


I'm not following. Why can't the train be recalled? I notice gamers have a tendency to insist that once something changes it can't go back.

User Info: SiegvonWal

SiegvonWal
1 month ago#84
Dark Symphony posted...

I'm not following. Why can't the train be recalled? I notice gamers have a tendency to insist that once something changes it can't go back.


They certainly could, theoretically, I just doubt they will since most people voted for DW7-8 in the older poll of favorite DWs and only a small majority voted for DW9 in the poll I put up.

Old Poll: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/203126-dynasty-warriors-9/76344289
New Poll: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/203126-dynasty-warriors-9/77057720

The results are interesting. If you add up all the PS2 Era games for either poll, you have roughly a third of the fanbase favoring the old school games the most. For the newer games though, the results differ massively. The old poll massively favored DW7-8 while the new one was more open to DW9.

Therefore, I interpret the results as 1/3rd favoring old school, 1/3-1/2 favoring the DW7-8 Era, and the remainder favoring the new way DW9 has opened. Personally, I'd sit between Old School and DW9 as I think DW9's the best DW since 3 (because it's open world and tries a lot new, most of which I like) and maybe the majority of people that voted have a game from another camp as a close second (like a guy that voted DW8 might have DW5 as his close second or vice versa) so perhaps there's more overlap than what appears at face value.

However, ultimately, this means that for Koei to please all the fans at least a little, they have to somehow juggle "Old School" with "Middle School" with "Experimental School" (to stretch the "Schools" a bit) who knows what that'll amount to.

Personally, I'd rather they expand upon DW9's core concepts when making DW10 and consider more how things used to work in the PS2 Era when creating movesets and setting up A.I. and all that, but I understand it's hardly as simple as copying and pasting because characters stunned more easily back then and there were far fewer enemies and thus far more realistic ranges etc. etc., but they may be able to recreate the core experience of needing allies to win battles in newer games as the Empires expansions generally rely on the player making effective use of teamwork to win battles and unite China (so if the Empires games can do it, why not the main games?).

I can't be sure Koei will expand upon DW9's base for DW10 or return to the DW7-8 Era, but I'm very skeptical they'd ever return to the PS2 Era having been gone from it for so long. They may implement individualized musou modes and staged maps (and that'd be great for me, though I prefer 9's open world), but I doubt the enemies will ever be as tough and demanding as they used to be unless Koei decides to gimp the player's ability to dodge around and remove the hyper armor most officers have (and/or implement some Empires features like giving orders or being ordered into the game so enemy officers aren't simply standing around while their allies are getting beat up). Then again, who knows. I never thought DW would go Open World so why can't DW go Old School with more active A.I. and freeform battles? Anything's possible if the development team puts their mind to it.
Ya iz russki bot

User Info: Skode24

Skode24
1 month ago#85
Not sure polls with a couple hundred votes from a western gaming site is much to go off in all honesty. If Gamefaqs were a barometer then it'd be simple as majority of the newest fans really enjoyed the game and the majority of the old fans wanted DW7 for the seventh time in a row.

The more recent poll was after most of the vocal haters have buggered off so it's probably the better of the two as it's made from looks of people still invested in the series even if they ain't playing DW9 I suppose. Did/does seem to be support for retaining open world and the combat system even if there's a good deal of negativity towards DW9 in regards to most other aspects of the game lol

User Info: Skode24

Skode24
1 month ago#86
https://youtu.be/Z7zibqRfywk

Finally a proper moveset fitting for him. He was by far worst offender for inexplicable allocation of a clone weapon (seriously why Zhao Yun?).

User Info: sol_trigger

sol_trigger
1 month ago#87
cry in zhao yun

User Info: Asdeq

Asdeq
1 month ago#88
Skode24 posted...
https://youtu.be/Z7zibqRfywk

Finally a proper moveset fitting for him. He was by far worst offender for inexplicable allocation of a clone weapon (seriously why Zhao Yun?).

So that fans can be scammed into being paid for DLC for a weapon that is semiclones and already in the game.

User Info: Skode24

Skode24
1 month ago#89
Asdeq posted...
Skode24 posted...
https://youtu.be/Z7zibqRfywk

Finally a proper moveset fitting for him. He was by far worst offender for inexplicable allocation of a clone weapon (seriously why Zhao Yun?).

So that fans can be scammed into being paid for DLC for a weapon that is semiclones and already in the game.


Yeah, definitely a vote with your wallet moment if your not impressed. FOUR of the six movesets are returning weapons from previous games - we have the Hook Swords, Lighting Sword and Katana coming up too.

User Info: Asdeq

Asdeq
1 month ago#90
Skode24 posted...
Asdeq posted...
Skode24 posted...
https://youtu.be/Z7zibqRfywk

Finally a proper moveset fitting for him. He was by far worst offender for inexplicable allocation of a clone weapon (seriously why Zhao Yun?).

So that fans can be scammed into being paid for DLC for a weapon that is semiclones and already in the game.


Yeah, definitely a vote with your wallet moment if your not impressed. FOUR of the six movesets are returning weapons from previous games - we have the Hook Swords, Lighting Sword and Katana coming up too.


The high dislike bar already seals that DW9 is already hated enough. I don't know what Koei's gonna do unless they're planning to win the most hated game of all time despite multiple updates.

EDIT: Koei's gonna be disliked whatever Koei's gonna do. Just release DW9E, and move on to DW10.
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