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  3. DW9 haters would you still buy DW9 if it was DW8 reskinned?

User Info: DsPsofLife

DsPsofLife
4 months ago#21
ComingEvil posted...
DsPsofLife posted...
It would fix one of the three biggest problems. However, the battles would still take place in the same copy/paste bases and forts and it would still be missing the great weapon customization from DW8. The gem system in DW9 is horrible.

Sorry man, about the last thing i care about is cut ‘n paste bases or forts. They mapped all of freakin China with hundreds of them. Doing individual customization for each one is simply not practical.

Aside from the switch attacks, the weapon system in 9 is simply more sophisticated and superior. I mean collecting , hording, and crafting different gems to make specific types of weapons for each character or scenario instead of unlocking stock hidden weapons after looking up where they are?


I will break down what I typed for you.
I agree that if you go wandering around, the rest of China looks great. The problem is once you go wandering around to unlock the points on the map, there is no reason to ever go out and see most of the map again. The battles and the majority of the game take place in the middle and north middle of the map. Most of the battles take place within the tiny forts and bases and have the same basic layout. The only excpetion is, normally the final battle of a chapter will take place in a bigger base/castle. Even battles that normally have a different feel to them like Chibi(fire ships) and Yiling(Stone Sentinel Maze) don't feel that much different than other more plain battles.

Now the actual combat and movesets took a few huge steps back. Enemies are giant damage sponges(or you are just extremely weak) and you just have to keep poking them hoping that the triangle prompt to kill them comes up sooner than later. You hope that when it does come up that it actually activates, plus it targets the correct enemy.

The combat strings are like an Unlimited Renbu version 2.0. The majority of combat is spamming square until you get the finisher prompt and using the R1+O on cooldown. Musou attacks were severely gimped and you have no reliable source of heavy damage or AOE attacks. Damage makes no sense. The damage you can do with the bow is either 1-shot kill or does no damage at all to the same enemies. The weapons all feel the same now, you no longer have weapons that excel at using charge attacks, normal string or a mix of both. The only difference now is the attack range.

Now onto the thing that holds DW9 back the most, the weapon building and gem system. You can no longer freely put useful elements onto a weapon(most suck) or control what elements it has. Getting the best weapon takes no time. My Sun Jian already had all of the (fake)Nine Rings Blades in chapter 1, he was the first character I played with. So the accomplishment of getting the best weapon and anticipation of getting more loot is already gone. The only element or gem attribute that I found to be any good was the +4 attack speed. None of the other elements or attributes did anything worthy of being used. The Lord Gems are too random and I never found one that worked better than the purple fire gems that gave +4 attack speed. Since you are spamming square the whole time, you might as well spam faster so things die a little faster.

User Info: SiegvonWal

SiegvonWal
4 months ago#22
DsPsofLife posted...

I will break down what I typed for you.
I agree that if you go wandering around, the rest of China looks great. The problem is once you go wandering around to unlock the points on the map, there is no reason to ever go out and see most of the map again. The battles and the majority of the game take place in the middle and north middle of the map. Most of the battles take place within the tiny forts and bases and have the same basic layout. The only excpetion is, normally the final battle of a chapter will take place in a bigger base/castle. Even battles that normally have a different feel to them like Chibi(fire ships) and Yiling(Stone Sentinel Maze) don't feel that much different than other more plain battles.
I mostly with the exploration part. Unless you're looking for rare materials, there isn't much reason to explore again (unless you simply like to). Having some kind of super bandit or barbarian fortress in each corner of the countryside might alleviate it, especially if they were the real means of getting the top tier weapons.

I disagree about the battles though. Chi Bi was largely just beating people up on a coast line while Yi Ling was (as Wu) withstanding a mob of unique officers before chasing them through a mountain range. Quite different, based on that.

Now the actual combat and movesets took a few huge steps back. Enemies are giant damage sponges(or you are just extremely weak) and you just have to keep poking them hoping that the triangle prompt to kill them comes up sooner than later. You hope that when it does come up that it actually activates, plus it targets the correct enemy.
Totally disagree. Maybe YOU hope for the triangle but I've never had problems even on Ultimate. I typically play with my best gems (of a same element) on mid-tier weapons, and it never takes me too long to beat enemies. You must either be in the very beginning without good gems, weapons, or gear OR you're purposely gimping yourself at a point when you actually do have these things.

However, what's "too long" and what isn't is subjective. My longest was probably the first time I fought Zhang Jiao since I didn't notice the vases and basically made use of all my consumables to defeat him (and that felt glorious!).

The only difference now is the attack range.
... and attack speed, damage, defense... Having used a bunch of different weapons, I can definitely say they're not all the same. Katanas have wide coverage but are kinda slow, spears do similar damage but are much quicker though with much shorter range, whips do little damage but are very fast and can have a lot of range, and fans have a lot of range and damage (at least if you charge the attacks) and grant high defense but are slow. Not even mentioning how favored weapons have their own unique chains when wielded by their masters, some being far more useful than others.
Now onto the thing that holds DW9 back the most, the weapon building and gem system. You can no longer freely put useful elements onto a weapon(most suck) or control what elements it has. Getting the best weapon takes no time. My Sun Jian already had all of the (fake)Nine Rings Blades in chapter 1, he was the first character I played with. So the accomplishment of getting the best weapon and anticipation of getting more loot is already gone. The only element or gem attribute that I found to be any good was the +4 attack speed. None of the other elements or attributes did anything worthy of being used. The Lord Gems are too random and I never found one that worked better than the purple fire gems that gave +4 attack speed. Since you are spamming square the whole time, you might as well spam faster so things die a little faster.
Unfortunately, the quickest solution is to go fishing to trade for high quality gems. You wouldn't be saying this if you had options.
Ya iz russki bot

User Info: SiegvonWal

SiegvonWal
4 months ago#23
I'd rather high quality gems not be so easy to get via fish-grinding, but it is what it is and if you'd like to expand your options than I recommend either fishing or continuing to play (as you get mid-tier gems in story/side missions) because once you have literally dozens of gems you won't be saying how limited your options are.

Broadly speaking; Fire=Damage, Ice=Defense, Lighting=Musou, Wind=Atk Speed, Slash=Damage, and Poison=Damage-over-time. Three of those are functionally very similar, but the rest are distinct. You can specialize in one element per character/weapon, or you could try mixing it up to get the best effect. Not to mention all gems (beside Lord Gems) have random effects besides the guaranteed effects that can warrant a closer look (such as boosting damage, defense, speed, attack speed, and more).

This isn't Dark Souls level of combat and smithing but it's certainly better than simply having weapons with little ability to mold them towards different playstyles.

I love the traditional style of Warriors, but only really in the PS2 games since the lack of options in terms of items and support in PS3-4 non-Empires games makes them less replayable and more fixed than it used to be.
Ya iz russki bot

User Info: DsPsofLife

DsPsofLife
4 months ago#24
I played DW9 a little more than 146 hours. Not nearly as much as I played SSM7, DW8 and DW8XLCE, but I think that is more than enough to get a good feel for the game.

I wish you could build and customize gems the way you wanted, something like +% to musou damage, +strength, +attack speed and +% special attack damage. Just doing that would help so much. When the best gems you can get are crafted purple fire gems for the +attack speed, there is a problem.

User Info: SiegvonWal

SiegvonWal
4 months ago#25
DsPsofLife posted...
I played DW9 a little more than 146 hours. Not nearly as much as I played SSM7, DW8 and DW8XLCE, but I think that is more than enough to get a good feel for the game.
About the same as me lol. I didn't play the 8 series much outside Empires, and I generally play Empires games far more than their base equivalents.

Thank you for giving me your hours, as that helps with understanding how much you've played and all that.
I wish you could build and customize gems the way you wanted, something like +% to musou damage, +strength, +attack speed and +% special attack damage. Just doing that would help so much. When the best gems you can get are crafted purple fire gems for the +attack speed, there is a problem.

As-is, I think the system is okay (it's better, to me at least, than every system after DW5--that I recall, note I played the Empires versions far more than the base games) but could definitely use some improvement compared to systems in other games--although, really, outside RPGs like Dark Cloud, Kingdom Come Deliverance, and Dark Souls I don't think there really are weapons systems that are particularly remarkable beyond have this or that attachment or simply have a superior version of the same thing.

However, I don't know what Koei ought to do because I don't really care to keep up with dozens of different skills and pray to RNG for a lucky weapon drop or fusion result but at the same time I also would like some customizability with the weaponry (or the character). I think 9's actually the best in a long while because it's easy to mold your character to be a tank, DPS, glass cannon, or any other kind of archetype based on what stats you increase by level and what gear you equip. The gem system may be pretty simple (just put on what you want based on either effects or elements and that's it) but I prefer that massively to the RNG of collecting God-knows how many weapons and scrapping most of them.

Perhaps Koei ought to ignore us since we, as fans, are contradicting each other and they can't make us happy by listening to us at the expense of others among us. They should probably do what they think would be most fun and hope we agree once we've gotten our hands on it. I haven't played many games made by the big Nintendo dude (something Miyamoto is his name) but I hear he said something like "ignore the fans, make what you want to make" and that's his guiding principle. And from what I know, most--if not all--Zelda games are well-received so perhaps there's some truth that it's better to just stick with creative gut/desire than to listen to fans who can identify a problem but maybe not a good solution.

With 9, my current beef (in terms of combat) is that it's all too easy to become OP. Just put on four Warriors Mail and you're invincible and super deadly. They're not hard to get if you're willing to fish-grind. I think 9 ought to have some seriously tough mofos so that putting on all that power actually is necessary to beat some kind of legendary godly super-boss because otherwise I purposely never put on more than one or two Warriors Mail because, on Ultimate, more than that is too OP and thus breaks the difficulty and immersion.

My favorite moments in 9 is when I have to pull all my cards out to win. I don't like having to hold back, but unless they either crank up yet another super-high difficulty for those like myself then they're going to have to re-balance things for the next game so that even with the best gear you can get your face wrecked if you aren't playing smart.
Ya iz russki bot

User Info: ComingEvil

ComingEvil
4 months ago#26
DsPsofLife posted...
ComingEvil posted...
DsPsofLife posted...
It would fix one of the three biggest problems. However, the battles would still take place in the same copy/paste bases and forts and it would still be missing the great weapon customization from DW8. The gem system in DW9 is horrible.

Sorry man, about the last thing i care about is cut ‘n paste bases or forts. They mapped all of freakin China with hundreds of them. Doing individual customization for each one is simply not practical.

Aside from the switch attacks, the weapon system in 9 is simply more sophisticated and superior. I mean collecting , hording, and crafting different gems to make specific types of weapons for each character or scenario instead of unlocking stock hidden weapons after looking up where they are?


I will break down what I typed for you.
I agree that if you go wandering around, the rest of China looks great. The problem is once you go wandering around to unlock the points on the map, there is no reason to ever go out and see most of the map again. The battles and the majority of the game take place in the middle and north middle of the map. Most of the battles take place within the tiny forts and bases and have the same basic layout. The only excpetion is, normally the final battle of a chapter will take place in a bigger base/castle. Even battles that normally have a different feel to them like Chibi(fire ships) and Yiling(Stone Sentinel Maze) don't feel that much different than other more plain battles.

Now the actual combat and movesets took a few huge steps back. Enemies are giant damage sponges(or you are just extremely weak) and you just have to keep poking them hoping that the triangle prompt to kill them comes up sooner than later. You hope that when it does come up that it actually activates, plus it targets the correct enemy.

The combat strings are like an Unlimited Renbu version 2.0. The majority of combat is spamming square until you get the finisher prompt and using the R1+O on cooldown. Musou attacks were severely gimped and you have no reliable source of heavy damage or AOE attacks. Damage makes no sense. The damage you can do with the bow is either 1-shot kill or does no damage at all to the same enemies. The weapons all feel the same now, you no longer have weapons that excel at using charge attacks, normal string or a mix of both. The only difference now is the attack range.

Now onto the thing that holds DW9 back the most, the weapon building and gem system. You can no longer freely put useful elements onto a weapon(most suck) or control what elements it has. Getting the best weapon takes no time. My Sun Jian already had all of the (fake)Nine Rings Blades in chapter 1, he was the first character I played with. So the accomplishment of getting the best weapon and anticipation of getting more loot is already gone. The only element or gem attribute that I found to be any good was the +4 attack speed. None of the other elements or attributes did anything worthy of being used. The Lord Gems are too random and I never found one that worked better than the purple fire gems that gave +4 attack speed. Since you are spamming square the whole time, you might as well spam faster so things die a little faster.

Do you have the scrolls for the Lord Gems yet?

While grinding for/buying the materials (Agate, Ruby, etc), is a process, this is where the weapon system truly shines and making the perfect weapon(s) for each character becomes one of the most addictive tasks in history.

User Info: Dark Symphony

Dark Symphony
4 months ago#27
ComingEvil posted...
In DW8, people complained the game never changes, so it changed, now they complain that it changed . .


Why do people say such silly comments?

Are they aware that requests for change imply a certain level of expected quality? Or do they honestly think that if DW9 was literal diarrhea on their shoes it should be embraced as long as it was different and they asked for change?

And of course I would have bought DW9 if it was just a reskinned DW8. I bought it the way it is now even with its flaws (3 times going on 4). DW8 was an amazing game and the offering as a whole was one of the best I'd ever played. Its combat isn't as good as 9's but the game as a whole was just wonderful.

User Info: ComingEvil

ComingEvil
4 months ago#28
Dark Symphony posted...
ComingEvil posted...
In DW8, people complained the game never changes, so it changed, now they complain that it changed . .


Why do people say such silly comments?

Are they aware that requests for change imply a certain level of expected quality? Or do they honestly think that if DW9 was literal diarrhea on their shoes it should be embraced as long as it was different and they asked for change?

And of course I would have bought DW9 if it was just a reskinned DW8. I bought it the way it is now even with its flaws (3 times going on 4). DW8 was an amazing game and the offering as a whole was one of the best I'd ever played. Its combat isn't as good as 9's but the game as a whole was just wonderful.

we say that because it’s accurate. Just like you’d be complaining if 9 was the same as 8, and the series hasn’t changed and the same thing you people have been sa saying for about 10years.

Hopefully Koei will leave the old-Mortal Kombat bitten stuff to Oshis, and Pirates while DW and SW move on to a more sophisticated format.

User Info: Degalon

Degalon
4 months ago#29
I love how people try go "but change!"

Yeah but there's good changes and bad changes.

Dw9's bad changes far, far, far outweight it's good changes.
GT/PSN: DEGALON
Official Fuu of the Naruto Storm 3 Boards

User Info: sol_trigger

sol_trigger
4 months ago#30
i wish gamefaqs has a block function so i can block Dark Symphony
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