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User Info: Robin_Mask

Robin_Mask
1 week ago#21
Super_Tramp posted...
I am not a doctor nor a scientist but I take it on faith that the game isn't trying to pull the rug out from under us and that they had the personnel and technology handy to complete their goals. I'm not saying the reasonings are perfect, I'm just saying I'm going to follow the storyline and interpret the conversations the best I can.

Saying that, I think that the fireflies had the knowledge and equipment necessary to complete their task. They believed it, the game wants you to believe it, therefore I'm going to believe it.

So.... baaaaaah. :)
You some sheep or something?

We could have gotten hints that they had some bettet tech at least. But it sounds like you just pulled that out of your ads just to pick a side and feel good about it. That way we are allowed to believe them or not. Then that leaves the question if they would even help the world it hold it for ransom. We already know they don't mind putting lives in danger as seen in the zone Joel and Tess started at.

The entire situation has a few too many important factors rather than "cure found, the world is cured and all problems are gone this time tomorrow!"
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User Info: Super_Tramp

Super_Tramp
1 week ago#22
Robin_Mask posted...


The entire situation has a few too many important factors rather than "cure found, the world is cured and all problems are gone this time tomorrow!"

How did the argument turn from; what are the chances of a cure, to what would they do with said cure when they have it?

As for a time frame for reverse engineering a cure, sure, I imagine it might not be instantaneous. Like almost every important accomplishment in science; s*** takes time.
Take Your Time

User Info: Robin_Mask

Robin_Mask
1 week ago#23


Super_Tramp posted...
How did the argument turn from; what are the chances of a cure, to what would they do with said cure when they have it?

As for a time frame for reverse engineering a cure, sure, I imagine it might not be instantaneous. Like almost every important accomplishment in science; s*** takes time.
It all needs to be taken into account. I don't see how anyone can easily trust without enough evidence that they have the means somehow. Like I said, you can't just have some belief thinking they got some secret tech for the cure. We need at least some hints it exists. Damn rundown labs and hospitals are no good.

In that time frame, anything can happen. This is why the ending works. So what if they found a cure? What happens next? Just because it is supposed to help the world doesn't mean it will happen. Same for Joel and Ellie, do they live in Tommy's town or a safe zone or on their own or some other community? Does it take a while or a long time for the next story? Does she believe Joel's lie or not? That was the beauty of TLOU1's ending.
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User Info: Kingdom080500

Kingdom080500
1 week ago#24
Super_Tramp posted...
How did the argument turn from; what are the chances of a cure, to what would they do with said cure when they have it?
Because it was already discussed that it is canon that a cure would have been made if Joel didn't intervene. Once again, it's obvious bulls*** Druckmann just pulled out his ass in a tweet, but whatever it's canon now I guess.
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User Info: Super_Tramp

Super_Tramp
1 week ago#25
Okay.

Ambiguity is the very reasoning for each persons own opinions. I can totally understand that. I can totally understand the logic that while the fireflies wanted what they believed was the best for mankind, their actions were misguided.

I even found that audio from the doctor who said 'other' patients that he diagnosed and researched were of no use. Therefore the doctor creating a vaccine from Ellie would be unlikely. To that though, I disagree. All other infected patients were not immune like Ellie. Ellie was indeed a stand alone case. She was the only person to ever get bitten and not turn.

Therefore I believe that if the doctor had taken samples of her brain, they would have found a cure. The interactions it would have with the fungus would give doctors and scientist the information they need to complete a vaccine. This was very much implied in the first game and I'm going with that.

As for how the writer decided to confirm this as 100%. That's within his right because it was neither confirmed or denied in the first game. It was speculated that her death would mean the survival and thriving of the human race because a cure would be created.

Honestly I like that idea even more because it just goes to show how much Joel cared for her. Living, she was the cure for Joel's depression and anger. Dead she was the cure for the countless lives that have to live in fear every day.

Anyway, if we are going to go off topic. I feel the best ending to the 2nd game would have been to have Ellie go with Abby to the firefly hideout, where she meets with the doctors and scientists and allows them to do the biopsy.

The End.
Take Your Time

User Info: TheOtherMike

TheOtherMike
1 week ago#26
It's not possible to vaccinate for fungal infections. At all. If we're raising doubts about the Fireflies' ability to make a vaccine based on realistic considerations like the availability of equipment and time developing the drug, the above fact has to be considered as well. Obviously the game wants us to believe it can be done. But for as much as I love TLoU the entire sequence in the hospital makes no sense whatsoever.

There's a document or recording that says they were able to cultivate Ellie's cordyceps in a growth medium. If that's true there's literally no reason to cut her open. Just collect more samples and grow more cultures. Killing the host would be insanely stupid and shortsighted.

It also doesn't make sense that Ellie never regained consciousness while at the hospital. Taking samples and running labs on them takes literal days. Why would Marlene have her kept sedated during this time? Ellie was a family friend. Even if there was no personal connection, they wouldn't waste valuable drugs keeping her sedated. They wouldn't immediately decide to kill and dissect Ellie before running every other conceivable test they could, many of which would require her to be conscious. She'd need a full and extensive physical to ensure there are no negative effects of her unique infection.

The ending is pure emotional manipulation at the expense of believability. The most cursory examination of the Fireflies and medical staff reveals them to be literal fanatics and mad scientists. I still very much enjoyed it, but it could have definitely been written better.

User Info: Dabrikishaw15

Dabrikishaw15
1 week ago#27
Robin_Mask posted...
Druckman tweeted that a cure would have happened lol. Of course, it's just a bulls*** excuse and nothing else. Ruins the ambiguity of the ending.
You've said this before, but never provided the tweet in question. We only have your word to go on.
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User Info: soysturm

soysturm
1 week ago#28
So the point is that the story is actually good because of a bunch of handwaving away concerns and unrealistic elements? Cool
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User Info: Dem_Magus

Dem_Magus
1 week ago#29
Sure we have some conflicting evidence,
But as of part II, it stands if Joel, did not kill Abby's father,
The fireflies would have had a cure. No argument is going to change that.

So there is no argument, congratulations you found an as of part 2 obsolete piece of evidence. stating that the 100% cure MIGHT have been a smaller cure. and even that changes nothing.

Simply stop trying to grasp at straws to imagine Joel for less of the a****** that he is.

Yes you hate Abby for clubbering poor Joel to death and you'll stop at nothing to paint her as the villain. as things are currently though. He absolutely deserved what came to him. and he did rob the earth of a cure permanently. (unless new elements get introduced)

User Info: Robin_Mask

Robin_Mask
1 week ago#30
Super_Tramp posted...
Okay.

Ambiguity is the very reasoning for each persons own opinions. I can totally understand that. I can totally understand the logic that while the fireflies wanted what they believed was the best for mankind, their actions were misguided.

I even found that audio from the doctor who said 'other' patients that he diagnosed and researched were of no use. Therefore the doctor creating a vaccine from Ellie would be unlikely. To that though, I disagree. All other infected patients were not immune like Ellie. Ellie was indeed a stand alone case. She was the only person to ever get bitten and not turn.

Therefore I believe that if the doctor had taken samples of her brain, they would have found a cure. The interactions it would have with the fungus would give doctors and scientist the information they need to complete a vaccine. This was very much implied in the first game and I'm going with that.

As for how the writer decided to confirm this as 100%. That's within his right because it was neither confirmed or denied in the first game. It was speculated that her death would mean the survival and thriving of the human race because a cure would be created.

Honestly I like that idea even more because it just goes to show how much Joel cared for her. Living, she was the cure for Joel's depression and anger. Dead she was the cure for the countless lives that have to live in fear every day.

Anyway, if we are going to go off topic. I feel the best ending to the 2nd game would have been to have Ellie go with Abby to the firefly hideout, where she meets with the doctors and scientists and allows them to do the biopsy.

The End.
Great post besides the wishful thinking about Ellie being the cure. Way better ending for TLOU2 also.
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