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User Info: islandstartv

islandstartv
6 days ago#21
saint_zodiac posted...
If you understand revenge stories, Druckman nailed it and that very last scene hurts even more just because she realizes what she has done because of her revenge. It is a cruel ending but that is what revenge is all about.

That being said, if 3 does happen. I would want Ellie and Dina to get back together again or at least meet one time to get complete closure regardless of that closure happens.

saint_zodiac posted...
If you understand revenge stories, Druckman nailed it and that very last scene hurts even more just because she realizes what she has done because of her revenge. It is a cruel ending but that is what revenge is all about.

That being said, if 3 does happen. I would want Ellie and Dina to get back together again or at least meet one time to get complete closure regardless of that closure happens.

naw the scene means the game was a waste of time because she didn't even get revenge and f***ed up her life for nothing lmao

If she would've killed abby and the same ending happen, then it would hit home that revenge is bad, she traded everything for revenge

here she doesn't take revenge, but still lost everything to revenge lmao, making the quest in the game pointless

also Ellie is a seasoned killer in a cruel world, revenge is normal

it's like telling a gang member not to take a revenge when a rival kills one of his homes, the code of the streets demands revenge in that world

in their world, these jedi principles do not apply to any of the characters and shouldn't because it's not in their character due to the environment they live in

User Info: megamatics

megamatics
6 days ago#22
ForteEXE3850 posted...
The typical revenge plot is the person gets their revenge but finds out despite all they sacrificed for said revenge, they still aren't happy, and still have to learn to move on. The revenge itself was never going to make them happy. This way the audiences gets satisfaction, but the "revenge is bad" message still gets through.

In this story the person sacrifices everything to not finish with their revenge and still is unhappy at the end.

And the person who completed their revenge was let go. Unscathed, no, but she came out with more then the Ellie.

The game director himself said this story is about the cycle of violence.

If we are going to talk about realism instead of themes here...

Ellie killing everyone actually would end the cycle of violence, letting someone go means they might come back to get their revenge. Not only themselves, letting people with hatred go free, means they will pass than hatred onto others.

The handling of the revenge is pretty bad as well, since it doesn't cover the many ways in which revenge can be taken. The supreme lack of politics in the revenge make it uninteresting because everyone signed up to help right at the start and no opening for other solutions was ever given than 2 forces coming to create the ultimate battle. Its fine if they wanted to show just the cycle of violence as many cowboy films, martial arts films and samurai media do too but those things found out long ago how shallow the narrative is without the ultimate end where the 2 forces meet up. When I read praises of the end it just reads like people are interpreting the failure on delivering as a deep message when its message is just pointlessness. The shallow revenge is supposed to be a realization of the jester laughing in the background while the revenge taker toils with nothing really achieved but an end. In the realm of pushing the lore forward, this just pointlessly invalidated the first game as well as many things that happened in the second game.

The answer to what does Joel's decision mean in the long run just came down to a cliche. Someone got their revenge and then someone else went after them. Ellie did not move until Abby started it. Joel killing the doctor represented no real malice but Abby's represented malice because her intent was to kill Joel, when that doctor (Abby's Father) was in the way. Abby is just like any of the bad guys who came into the Dojo to kill the master. There is no stopping what was to come for her as soon as Joel was killed for her selfish pleasure but the game tries to cancel the flight and pretend that is a big message when it just isn't.
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