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  3. Few questions befoee I start a feast for crows.

User Info: JamesOwnzMaz

JamesOwnzMaz
1 year ago#11
Lord Seth posted...
n. Things progress similarly up through Light killing L. However, due to thinking L is dead, Light slips up... and is then caught by L, who it turns out wasn't dead. L wrote his own name in the Death Note before Light did, therefore negating Light's attempt to kill him. Things play out largely the same as they do in the conclusion of the anime/manga, and then L dies 20 days later due to the Death Note. Near and Mello never appear. It's a downright ingenious way to essentially move up the ending to the conclusion of the first part, and I appreciate the pyrrhic nature of the victory (a simple triumph over Light by L would have been rather dull).



wrong topic lol.

But the anime was good, Light should have won lol would have been more interesting they had to nerf him at the end to finish it
I Am The Architect

User Info: MrOnionHead

MrOnionHead
1 year ago#12
RonWeassly posted...
MrOnionHead posted...
snakes_righteye posted...
It may be the best fantasy book every written.


Hahaha.

In all seriousness though, glad you enjoyed it.


Look, this has gotten people who aren't into Fantasy, into fantasy. I think he's talking about the series as a whole. Not FFC alone.

And Time Magazine ain't coining just anyone the American Tolkien. These books have a magic to them that sets it apart from all the generic crap and even Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time.

People can deny it all they want, but this series is a serious contender for best Fantasy of all time.
When you can grab both critics and the mainstream, you've got something special.


I respectfully disagree.

I think that the whims of the public have shown that they can't be trusted, and that once something is commercially large enough, lots of critics will be tempted to support it.

Don't get me wrong, this series can be entertaining. It has its place. Nothing wrong with people enjoying it, but it's not some incredible work of literarure.
'being tolerant of someone doesn't instantly make them the chancellor of germany' - Fatso666

User Info: Mooogleman

Mooogleman
1 year ago#13
MrOnionHead posted...
RonWeassly posted...
MrOnionHead posted...
snakes_righteye posted...
It may be the best fantasy book every written.


Hahaha.

In all seriousness though, glad you enjoyed it.


Look, this has gotten people who aren't into Fantasy, into fantasy. I think he's talking about the series as a whole. Not FFC alone.

And Time Magazine ain't coining just anyone the American Tolkien. These books have a magic to them that sets it apart from all the generic crap and even Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time.

People can deny it all they want, but this series is a serious contender for best Fantasy of all time.
When you can grab both critics and the mainstream, you've got something special.


I respectfully disagree.

I think that the whims of the public have shown that they can't be trusted, and that once something is commercially large enough, lots of critics will be tempted to support it.

Don't get me wrong, this series can be entertaining. It has its place. Nothing wrong with people enjoying it, but it's not some incredible work of literarure.




Agree and disagree. Agree with the critics part. I remember reading a storm of swords on the metro back in 00 or 01 and some guy sat down next to me (last seat available) told his girlfriend to hold on. Asked where I was in the book and got so excited. Telling me the best was coming and the deaths are insane coming up but no details. Don't recall where I did. Before robs wedding tho.

I got into the series because I was a huge fantasy fan; at that time reviews on Amazon were high, and people were already claiming it was one of the all time greats. That is how I got into the series.

There is no doubt the show has created an influx of fans. Critic reviews were good from the first book though.


It was diffrent. It wasn't the stereotypical high fantasy I was used to. At that time I read a lot of forgotten realms. Just read the sword of sbannara. I had read the fellowship and the hobbit, not the middle or third book of lotr (forgot the names).

There is little else like asoif. The wait for feast was long. Which is why when I went to get fever dream from the library and saw it I got excited. Then realized I really needed to reread 1-3 before it and vowed to wait for the series to be done.


12 years later shows almost done its massive in popularity, as the show ends it will quell. My cousin who doesn't read period read the first book after the show. His first book since he graduated HS. Didn't finish clash but..... it does make people read. Sadly a lot only read this but the story resonates and is a magnet to even non readers.

It is a great work of fantasy. Ironically, my cousins dad is a retire english reader with books in all his closets, thousands all over the house. He just watches the show because "too much to read and the show is fine as is.


Critics I feel often are afraid of back lash and losing readers and such and as such do sometimes allow the masses to influence them at times.

Dance with dragons won the locus award where storm of swords was just nominated for example. Storm was also nominated for a nebula. As was clash and dance. None won. If it is like the Oscars they will wait till the end.


The old covers were generic fantasy. Game was grey with a bubble at the top with a picture of a guy on a horse. Clash of kinds god with several standing I believe in a similar bubble. Storm was people on horses with banners and such.



Just imo. Opinions.



Also thanks for the more specific post about the rebellion and pointing out book 2.

User Info: RonWeassly

RonWeassly
1 year ago#14

I respectfully disagree.

I think that the whims of the public have shown that they can't be trusted, and that once something is commercially large enough, lots of critics will be tempted to support it.


Then I suppose Twilight and Fifty Shades were hailed as masterpieces as well. Masterpieces of s*** definitely, but they weren't praised by the public or the critics. Let's look at TV for example:

Empire was a super popular show in 2015 but it was critically panned as well. The only praise it or was for diversity and as a Black man I found that offensive because genre were plenty of better Black shows on at the time.

There's plenty of ther examples.

On the other hand, The Sopranos was super popular as well but both critics, indie people and fans loved it.

GOT/ASOIAF just has that magic that Sopranos and The Wire had. You can keep going back to it.

Don't get me wrong, this series can be entertaining. It has its place. Nothing wrong with people enjoying it, but it's not some incredible work of literarure.


It's incredible because it's memorable. Great work of literature? Debatable. You can't say it isn't and I can't say it is. Time will tell but I think it's chances of being remembered twenty to thirty years from now are great.

We're almost a hundred years from LOTR publication. It's still talked about.

Batman is still going, etc.

Good writing doesn't always matter. I'm talking about technical writing here by the way. The art of putting words together into memorable passages. I keep trying to tell people this but no one listens. Character, lore, depth, plot, and execution is all that matters in making a story not only memorable but loved by both sides: mainstream, underground, and critics.
And it's not like Martin is a terrible writer either. He's written some great passages before, but passage as great as Gatsby's final one?

No, but I love his story way more than Gatsby's story. And I still read Gatsby to this day.

Dance with dragons won the locus award where storm of swords was just nominated for example. Storm was also nominated for a nebula. As was clash and dance. None won. If it is like the Oscars they will wait till the end.


Awards don't matter. Creating memorable characters and worlds does. A work that survives is what you should strive for. Forget awards.

Driving Miss Daisy won the Oscar for best picture, but everyone remembers Do the Right Thing. And Do the Right Thing was the better film.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2014/7jSMUQ.gif

User Info: MrOnionHead

MrOnionHead
1 year ago#15
RonWeassly posted...

I respectfully disagree.

I think that the whims of the public have shown that they can't be trusted, and that once something is commercially large enough, lots of critics will be tempted to support it.


Then I suppose Twilight and Fifty Shades were hailed as masterpieces as well. Masterpieces of s*** definitely, but they weren't praised by the public or the critics. Let's look at TV for example:

Empire was a super popular show in 2015 but it was critically panned as well. The only praise it or was for diversity and as a Black man I found that offensive because genre were plenty of better Black shows on at the time.

There's plenty of ther examples.

On the other hand, The Sopranos was super popular as well but both critics, indie people and fans loved it.

GOT/ASOIAF just has that magic that Sopranos and The Wire had. You can keep going back to it.

Don't get me wrong, this series can be entertaining. It has its place. Nothing wrong with people enjoying it, but it's not some incredible work of literarure.


It's incredible because it's memorable. Great work of literature? Debatable. You can't say it isn't and I can't say it is. Time will tell but I think it's chances of being remembered twenty to thirty years from now are great.

We're almost a hundred years from LOTR publication. It's still talked about.

Batman is still going, etc.

Good writing doesn't always matter. I'm talking about technical writing here by the way. The art of putting words together into memorable passages. I keep trying to tell people this but no one listens. Character, lore, depth, plot, and execution is all that matters in making a story not only memorable but loved by both sides: mainstream, underground, and critics.
And it's not like Martin is a terrible writer either. He's written some great passages before, but passage as great as Gatsby's final one?

No, but I love his story way more than Gatsby's story. And I still read Gatsby to this day.

Dance with dragons won the locus award where storm of swords was just nominated for example. Storm was also nominated for a nebula. As was clash and dance. None won. If it is like the Oscars they will wait till the end.


Awards don't matter. Creating memorable characters and worlds does. A work that survives is what you should strive for. Forget awards.

Driving Miss Daisy won the Oscar for best picture, but everyone remembers Do the Right Thing. And Do the Right Thing was the better film.


I doubt we'd ever agree. We have totally different ideas about what constitutes good writing. The fact that you refer to Gatsby as am example means that we are worlds apart.
'being tolerant of someone doesn't instantly make them the chancellor of germany' - Fatso666

User Info: RonWeassly

RonWeassly
1 year ago#16
I doubt we'd ever agree. We have totally different ideas about what constitutes good writing. The fact that you refer to Gatsby as am example means that we are worlds apart.


I don't care what you consider to be good writing. What I don't like is people thinking they're better just because they like something they perceive to be better or something that's perceived to be better.

I just used Gatsby as an example because that the first 'masterpiece,' that everyone refers to. I figured you liked that one too. You mentioned 'masterpiece,' that's the first example I thought of considering almost everyone in the literary world seems to love it, all because of that final line.

All I was saying is, you don't have to like it as much as others people but you can't deny that it's memorable for all the right reasons and being commercially successful has little to do with it when Fifty Shades and twilight proves that wrong.

Let's all enjoy what we enjoy and not put anyone else down because I guarantee you will run into some a****** who thinks their favorite 'masterpiece,' is better than what you consider a 'masterpiece.'
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2014/7jSMUQ.gif

User Info: MrOnionHead

MrOnionHead
1 year ago#17
RonWeassly posted...
I doubt we'd ever agree. We have totally different ideas about what constitutes good writing. The fact that you refer to Gatsby as am example means that we are worlds apart.


I don't care what you consider to be good writing. What I don't like is people thinking they're better just because they like something they perceive to be better or something that's perceived to be better.

I just used Gatsby as an example because that the first 'masterpiece,' that everyone refers to. I figured you liked that one too. You mentioned 'masterpiece,' that's the first example I thought of considering almost everyone in the literary world seems to love it, all because of that final line.

All I was saying is, you don't have to like it as much as others people but you can't deny that it's memorable for all the right reasons and being commercially successful has little to do with it when Fifty Shades and twilight proves that wrong.

Let's all enjoy what we enjoy and not put anyone else down because I guarantee you will run into some a****** who thinks their favorite 'masterpiece,' is better than what you consider a 'masterpiece.'


I feel that you have grossly misrepresented my position. I haven't said there's anything wrong with enjoying it. In fact, I've said on this board that it's good if people enjoy them.

Your point about commercial success is moot, as I didn't claim that critics always back commercial success, only that it can be an influencing factor.

I don't like to assume but I'm guessing you're American? I'm not, and where I come from Gatsby is a very divisive book. It certainly wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind when people think of classic.

Also, I can deny that it's memorable for all the right reasons. It's memorable for regular slaughter of characters. You might think that's a strength of writing, and I respect your opinion, but I don't share it.
'being tolerant of someone doesn't instantly make them the chancellor of germany' - Fatso666

User Info: RonWeassly

RonWeassly
1 year ago#18
The only reason I mentioned Gatsby is because this is the book board and Gatsby is one of the most talked about stories of all time. Yes, in America at least it's always mentioned as a masterpiece, the great American novel, and whatever.

Also, I can deny that it's memorable for all the right reasons.


See, no you can't. It's memorable to people who love it and those people will pass it on. Kind of like how colleges and schools pass on 'masterpieces,' for people to read and learn from wherever you are.
For you, you won't remember GOT. Simple as that.

You can say it has good marketing, but so many shows and books gets millions of marketing out behind them, even a lot of critical acclaim, but they still fail to become a hit because their stories weren't good enough to justify the hype. GOT/ASOIAF just has enough original about it that's made people love it worldwide. And it's not just blood, t***, and Dragons. It's character, dialogue, coherence and plot.

It's memorable for regular slaughter of characters. You might think that's a strength of writing, and I respect your opinion, but I don't share it.


Getting people to care and give a damn about those characters is what makes it good.
Where you come from, things might be different with TV. I don't know, but violence is a common thing here on American TV and if you want your show to be successful, you have to do way more than killing off people to hook viewers. Slaughter has become so common in shows that it's boring if there's no compelling story or build up to support a death. The reason people talk about these deaths so much is because the writing made them give a damn about that character in the first place.

Breaking Bad for example was popular on its strength of writing and character. The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire, Mad Men, and now Game of Thrones all share great dialogue, character interaction, and cohesion. People only talk about character deaths because that was the natural conclusion to that characters' story.

Now, you have obviously found a pattern in novels and your form of entertainment that appeals to you. I think you just don't like hearing about GOT all the time. That's all. And this usually happens with popular series. People deny that it's something that will be remembered and twenty years down the line here we go again with a reboot or a spin-off. Or another book.
It's your sarcasm that revealed your true intentions with that post. The "Ha, ha."

That's it.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2014/7jSMUQ.gif

User Info: MrOnionHead

MrOnionHead
1 year ago#19
You're still talking crap.

RonWeassly posted...
See, no you can't.


I absolutely can. You act as if I've denied that it will be remembered. I haven't. My argument was simply that it won't be remembered for the right reasons.

RonWeassly posted...
Getting people to care and give a damn about those characters is what makes it good.


This is mostly done by making you follow them, rather than making them interesting. Comparing character development in this to something like Breaking Bad is laughable.

Look, I get that you like the series. So do I, despite what you keep asserting. I've repeatedly said that it's entertaining. However, telling people that they have to like the series as much as you do just makes you look like an ass.
'being tolerant of someone doesn't instantly make them the chancellor of germany' - Fatso666

User Info: RonWeassly

RonWeassly
1 year ago#20
Honestly, I don't care what you think anymore. At the end of the day, we all should stop giving a damn about what other people think and just enjoy what we enjoy. It goes for me and it goes for you too.

But you are being hypocritical, and it's sad you will make an argument for one show/book but refuse to see that it can be applied to another. Your opinion is not above another person's opinion. You are not above it. So quit the "Ha, ha." You constantly have this pretentious tone that you have to get rid of.
We're done here.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2014/7jSMUQ.gif
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