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  3. Anyone else find Charles to be a bit of a Mary Sue? (spoilers I guess)

User Info: UnfairRepresent

UnfairRepresent
4 weeks ago#1
He's ingelligent, hard-working, has enornous moral values (despite being in an outlaw gang of killers), chastises Arthur for not saving that chick's family, finds the camp for them, hunts food effortlessly. Got mad at those guys killing Buffalo for wasting food. Loyal to a fault in a gang he only just joined despite being 20 feet away from a reservation he seems to care about.

And this is a guy whose mother was taken and raped by the US army and his dad was an abusive drunk. He has no friends and everyone hates him solely because of how he looks. Yet instead of being jaded and insane he is like the most perfect person in the entire franchise.

Has like no negative qualities whatsoever, saves Arthur's life, and literally rides off into the sunset in a series where so far the happiest ending anyone ever got was a crazy cowboy got to marry a horse.

Just felt a bit jarring in a group of like 20 people who all have personalities that he just seemed to be Captain Virtue Signaling.

Wouldn't it have been more interesting if Charles was Micah? And Micah was just some naive in over his head do-gooder who joined Dutch's gang recently? And his super competency and moral values came from the fact he had an easier upbringing than everyone else and he kind of gets made fun of for it?

And Arhur was like "Argh s*** why do we have to bring Charles along? Bring Lenny if you want a score, bring Charles if you want a corpse."
"What you got against the Indians anyway Arthur? I rightly see why you fellas can't get along."
"It's not cuz he's Indian Dutch, it's because he's insane. He killed half of Strawberry"

Anyone else feel that way or is it just me? He didn't fit his own backstory nor the plot in the game.
^ Hey now that's completely Merry!
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User Info: kainzow42

kainzow42
4 weeks ago#2
Have a problem with Natives? It comes across that way.

User Info: Cybersai

Cybersai
4 weeks ago#3
He is a mixed Native American and black man, there is no way Rockstar would rick controversy portraying him as negative. It's the same reason the Native American tribes in this game and the first one are always portrayed "in the right" and never anything wrong.

User Info: UnfairRepresent

UnfairRepresent
4 weeks ago#4
Cybersai posted...
He is a mixed Native American and black man, there is no way Rockstar would rick controversy portraying him as negative.


I think you're right and I think that's what made him a Mary Sue

It's the same reason the Native American tribes in this game and the first one are always portrayed "in the right" and never anything wrong.


Not really.

The major Native American Tribe in the first game allied with Dutch and go around killing people and comitting crimes. They even killed Nastas.

Nastas was also pretty perfect in terms of morality and competence but his backstory made sense. He was raised in a reservation but went to boarding school. So he is true to his tribe and people but also knows most "White Man" are just decent random guys. So he is critical of Natives being violent and hugely critical of the government abusing the natives.

His sadness at the death of the buffalo and his ability to save the day makes sense

He's a well rounded full character with flaws that ultimately lead to his downfall. He wants a peaceful outcome so much he underestimates that people won't hesitate to kill him.

Charles on the other hand just shoots the guys who killed the buffalo because he's so cool and perfect.
^ Hey now that's completely Merry!
https://i.imgtc.com/YnvkpvU.png

User Info: nnulda

nnulda
4 weeks ago#5
I don't get it
Charles was great the way he was
Why want Micah as a the good guy?
His, look, his voice, etc would all have to have been different,
Both characters would have had to have different voice actors and a whole lot of story re writing
It would not have worked
And an American Indian physco, why?
Seems to me like the TC has racial issues

User Info: UnfairRepresent

UnfairRepresent
4 weeks ago#6
nnulda posted...
I don't get it
Charles was great the way he was


If you say so. He was too "great" imo in a gang of 20 people with flaws and personality. He didn't really make any sense or have z character arc

Why want Micah as a the good guy?


No real desire to have Micah be good. Just that his personality suited Charles' backstory

His, look, his voice, etc would all have to have been different,

Both characters would have had to have different voice actors and a whole lot of story re writing
It would not have worked


Why?


And an American Indian physco, why?


Why not? There were native psychos in RDR1.

Why do you care so much about race?


Seems to me like the TC has racial issues


I think you're projecting
^ Hey now that's completely Merry!
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User Info: Kensaimage

Kensaimage
4 weeks ago#7
Can everyone stop overusing the term “Mary Sue”? I hear it EVERYWHERE. It’s beginning to lose its meaning.

Secondly, TC does come off a bit racist.

User Info: UnfairRepresent

UnfairRepresent
4 weeks ago#8
Kensaimage posted...
Can everyone stop overusing the term “Mary Sue”? I hear it EVERYWHERE. It’s beginning to lose its meaning.


People using it incorrectly doesn't invalidate it being used correctly.

Secondly, TC does come off a bit racist.


How so?
^ Hey now that's completely Merry!
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User Info: CutterDeBlanc

CutterDeBlanc
4 weeks ago#9
nnulda posted...
I don't get it
Charles was great the way he was

That's the problem, he has no character flaws
No habla espanol.

User Info: monkyby87

monkyby87
4 weeks ago#10
Gosh you tried awfully hard with this topic.

And I disagree with virtually everything you said.
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  3. Anyone else find Charles to be a bit of a Mary Sue? (spoilers I guess)
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