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  3. So who was the *Spoilers*?

User Info: Shrimp_Man

Shrimp_Man
1 week ago#11
Zarley420 posted...
Shrimp_Man posted...
cloud_8f8f posted...
Shrimp_Man posted...
She was drunk and heartsick over Dutch. She knew the rules, she just wanted it over with imo. She knew Dutch would kill her if she said she was the rat, what she probably didn't expect was Arthur sticking up for her and for Miss Grimshaw to do the deed.

Micah was 100% the rat to the Pinkertons but Molly might have accidentally spilled the location of the camp to the O'Driscolls while drunk. It was never stated for sure how the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle.


The O'Driscolls found Shady Belle because they captured Kieran and tortured him until he gave the location. Then they killed him.


But Kieran never left the camp unless escorted by a gang member as was seen when fishing with Arthur. He was captured after the party when they got Jack back and had been missing for a few days when he returned. So my question is, how did the O'Driscolls know where Shady Belle was to kidnap him?


Maybe Bronte tipped off Colm? Are we positive Kieren was still confined to camp at that point? Did K stand up with everyone vs. Milton when they came to the ch. 3 camp? Maybe he proved himself and was jumped going to SD.


Honestly, I'm not sure since I didn't spend a lot of time at camp during chapter 4. But I know for sure that Mary-Beth was looking for him at least once, if not a couple times so he was gone for a while. But I've only ever seen him tending to the horses, not doing anything else. And I'd have to rewatch the confrontation between Milton and the gang to know if he stood against the Pinkertons.
PSN: Shrimpie
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Zarley420 posted...
Who is to say Joe and Cleet weren't undercover Pinks?

Nah I think that's a stretch. Cleet wouldn't have behaved like he did in American Venom if that were true.
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User Info: wulfman75

wulfman75
1 week ago#13
Shrimp_Man posted...
Zarley420 posted...
Shrimp_Man posted...
cloud_8f8f posted...
Shrimp_Man posted...
She was drunk and heartsick over Dutch. She knew the rules, she just wanted it over with imo. She knew Dutch would kill her if she said she was the rat, what she probably didn't expect was Arthur sticking up for her and for Miss Grimshaw to do the deed.

Micah was 100% the rat to the Pinkertons but Molly might have accidentally spilled the location of the camp to the O'Driscolls while drunk. It was never stated for sure how the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle.


The O'Driscolls found Shady Belle because they captured Kieran and tortured him until he gave the location. Then they killed him.


But Kieran never left the camp unless escorted by a gang member as was seen when fishing with Arthur. He was captured after the party when they got Jack back and had been missing for a few days when he returned. So my question is, how did the O'Driscolls know where Shady Belle was to kidnap him?


Maybe Bronte tipped off Colm? Are we positive Kieren was still confined to camp at that point? Did K stand up with everyone vs. Milton when they came to the ch. 3 camp? Maybe he proved himself and was jumped going to SD.


Honestly, I'm not sure since I didn't spend a lot of time at camp during chapter 4. But I know for sure that Mary-Beth was looking for him at least once, if not a couple times so he was gone for a while. But I've only ever seen him tending to the horses, not doing anything else. And I'd have to rewatch the confrontation between Milton and the gang to know if he stood against the Pinkertons.


He stood with them. I think by chapter 4 he was trusted enough to come and go like eveyone else. When they were gearing up to storm Braithwaite Manor Dutch told Kieran and Micha to shoot anyone who showed up while they were gone. So they trusted him enough to protect the women while they were gone.

User Info: acolytes

acolytes
1 week ago#14
I honestly think Micah was working with the Pinkertons most of the game. The newspaper article about the Chapter 2 train robbery says that the law were tipped off to it for one thing. I don't know anyone else who would have done that.

Hell, he's obviously still working with them in the Epilogue too.
"I learned about the blues from this kitten I knew, her hair was raven and her heart was like a tomb. My heart's like a wound."

User Info: MayorDex

MayorDex
1 week ago#15
Micah's obsession with the Blackwater money was strange. In my opinion I think he kept wanting to go back for the money so that he could get Dutch killed or turned in for $$$. The epilogue has them team up again, but I think he was going to betray Dutch because the Pinkertons were on their way to the top of the mountain. By the time they got there, Micah was dead and Dutch was gone.

The failed bank heist could have just been the gang being sloppy. The Pinkerton's could have easily found them out because of the raid on Bronte's mansion. Not to mention that Lenny, Dutch and Arthur had that failed heist involving Bronte just before that. There were so many red flags already in Saint Denis, Hosea was right in thinking it was a bad idea
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User Info: Yshnu

Yshnu
1 week ago#16
MayorDex posted...
Micah's obsession with the Blackwater money was strange. In my opinion I think he kept wanting to go back for the money so that he could get Dutch killed or turned in for $$$. The epilogue has them team up again, but I think he was going to betray Dutch because the Pinkertons were on their way to the top of the mountain. By the time they got there, Micah was dead and Dutch was gone.

The failed bank heist could have just been the gang being sloppy. The Pinkerton's could have easily found them out because of the raid on Bronte's mansion. Not to mention that Lenny, Dutch and Arthur had that failed heist involving Bronte just before that. There were so many red flags already in Saint Denis, Hosea was right in thinking it was a bad idea


Dutch got greedy and he was willing to do anything to grab big money in St. Denis, even if it meant getting the entire gang killed. He was great at barking orders and coming up with pie-in-the-sky schemes, but not so great at stepping up himself to get things done. Oddly, everyone seemed willing to take a bullet for the moron.
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: Walker_Dude

Walker_Dude
1 week ago#17
Shrimp_Man posted...
She knew the rules

Love that line...
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User Info: khain37

khain37
1 week ago#18
MayorDex posted...
Micah's obsession with the Blackwater money was strange. In my opinion I think he kept wanting to go back for the money so that he could get Dutch killed or turned in for $$$. The epilogue has them team up again, but I think he was going to betray Dutch because the Pinkertons were on their way to the top of the mountain. By the time they got there, Micah was dead and Dutch was gone.


I don't think it was that strange...take from the Blackwater Job plus current gang savings were sitting there. Even Arthur at the end of the game considers going back into the cave to get the money from the chest which I assume was significantly less than what was in Blackwater.

Regarding, the epilogue...everyone seems to comment that Dutch and Micah have teamed up again. I disagree with this for 2 reasons:

1) When John asks Dutch "why are you here"...he says "same as you I suppose". I doubt Dutch thought John was there to work with Micah again.

2) Micah mentions they're teaming up "once more" which implies future cooperation....buuuut I don't believe anything Micah says so the teaming up part is him just spewing non-sense to de-escalate a situation. He's a survivor...or so he said and the end of Ch 6.

Regarding Micah's intentions...its completely possible that he was turning in Dutch for additional money and his own freedom from the law, but no definitive confirmation as far as I know. The cutscene at the end doesn't really tell you how long it took for the Pinkertons to show up but I suppose it couldn't have been too much past the end of the confrontation.
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(edited 1 week ago)
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