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  3. So who was the *Spoilers*?

User Info: Vegeta1988

Vegeta1988
1 week ago#1
Rat?

I know Micah ratted on Dutch to Milton but why did Molly say she told on them, or was she just lying?
"Woman! Get Me A Drying Cloth At Once!."

User Info: Shrimp_Man

Shrimp_Man
1 week ago#2
She was drunk and heartsick over Dutch. She knew the rules, she just wanted it over with imo. She knew Dutch would kill her if she said she was the rat, what she probably didn't expect was Arthur sticking up for her and for Miss Grimshaw to do the deed.

Micah was 100% the rat to the Pinkertons but Molly might have accidentally spilled the location of the camp to the O'Driscolls while drunk. It was never stated for sure how the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle.
PSN: Shrimpie
Steam: darth_shrimpie
(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: merManc

merManc
1 week ago#3
I'm almost back up to the end of chapter 6 on my second game, so I'll be able to hear exactly what was said again soon, but I remember Milton pretty much confirming just before Abigail killed him that they'd tried to get information from Molly but she hadn't given them anything. I didn't get the feeling he was lying about that to mess with Arthur's head, though I suppose it's possible.

Molly and Dutch's relationship had broken down. She was hurt by the way he was treating her, was getting more and more frustrated (she tried to talk to Arthur about Dutch once or twice from chapter 3 onwards and someone else always interrupted) and I think she was simply looking for some way to hurt Dutch by the end. My impression was that she lied about betraying them just to get back at him. Either it backfired pretty badly for her, or she was just miserable enough by then that she wanted someone to shoot her.

Micah was definitely a rat, but I'm not sure for how long. Quite possibly he was betraying the gang from before the game even begins, and the Blackwater disaster was down to him giving their plan away. Then again, there are a few times when he's in danger himself, and it doesn't make much sense for him to be leading the others into traps when he's caught in them as well. Though he might have miscalculated a few times and got himself into hotter water than intended.

I think he was trying to play everyone off against each other at every opportunity throughout the story. He was probably feeding the Pinkertons enough information to keep them right on the gang's heels, but not enough to let them finish them off. That way he could present himself as an indispensable right hand man for Dutch, because he would know how to keep just one step ahead of the law. I also suspect he sold Arthur out to the O'Driscolls in chapter 3. Hosea and Arthur are the biggest threats to his plan to get in close with Dutch, and he certainly keeps trying to drive a wedge between them. Wouldn't be surprised if he made sure Hosea would get captured during the Saint Denis bank job as well.

I might, of course, be wrong about all of this, but it's how I'm leaning.
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User Info: khain37

khain37
1 week ago#4
merManc posted...
Micah was definitely a rat, but I'm not sure for how long. Quite possibly he was betraying the gang from before the game even begins, and the Blackwater disaster was down to him giving their plan away. Then again, there are a few times when he's in danger himself, and it doesn't make much sense for him to be leading the others into traps when he's caught in them as well. Though he might have miscalculated a few times and got himself into hotter water than intended.

I think he was trying to play everyone off against each other at every opportunity throughout the story. He was probably feeding the Pinkertons enough information to keep them right on the gang's heels, but not enough to let them finish them off. That way he could present himself as an indispensable right hand man for Dutch, because he would know how to keep just one step ahead of the law. I also suspect he sold Arthur out to the O'Driscolls in chapter 3. Hosea and Arthur are the biggest threats to his plan to get in close with Dutch, and he certainly keeps trying to drive a wedge between them. Wouldn't be surprised if he made sure Hosea would get captured during the Saint Denis bank job as well..


Milton says in the last mission they picked him up after everyone got back from the Caribbean. While I wouldn't be surprised if he was working his own self interests the entire time, I don't know how much he was directly betraying everyone from the beginning.

Only thing is I don't know for sure who tipped them off about the St. Denis bank heist. Either Molly told them more than Milton admitted (she did say she tipped them off at end Ch 5) or Micah did and Milton just never addressed it during the cut scene on the last mission.

I would wager that he led the Pinkerton's to the temporary hideout in the Bayou and everything else thereafter.

Its quite possible the gang was just getting a bit sloppy starting with the Blackwater job, then robbing Cornwall who probably has eyes and ears everywhere. Arthur and the gang weren't exactly subtle.
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(edited 1 week ago)

User Info: frankspank

frankspank
1 week ago#5
khain37 posted...
merManc posted...
Micah was definitely a rat, but I'm not sure for how long. Quite possibly he was betraying the gang from before the game even begins, and the Blackwater disaster was down to him giving their plan away. Then again, there are a few times when he's in danger himself, and it doesn't make much sense for him to be leading the others into traps when he's caught in them as well. Though he might have miscalculated a few times and got himself into hotter water than intended.

I think he was trying to play everyone off against each other at every opportunity throughout the story. He was probably feeding the Pinkertons enough information to keep them right on the gang's heels, but not enough to let them finish them off. That way he could present himself as an indispensable right hand man for Dutch, because he would know how to keep just one step ahead of the law. I also suspect he sold Arthur out to the O'Driscolls in chapter 3. Hosea and Arthur are the biggest threats to his plan to get in close with Dutch, and he certainly keeps trying to drive a wedge between them. Wouldn't be surprised if he made sure Hosea would get captured during the Saint Denis bank job as well..


Milton says in the last mission they picked him up after everyone got back from the Caribbean. While I wouldn't be surprised if he was working his own self interests the entire time, I don't know how much he was directly betraying everyone from the beginning.

Only thing is I don't know for sure who tipped them off about the St. Denis bank heist. Either Molly told them more than Milton admitted (she did say she tipped them off at end Ch 5) or Micah did and Milton just never addressed it during the cut scene on the last mission.

I would wager that he led the Pinkerton's to the temporary hideout in the Bayou and everything else thereafter.

Its quite possible the gang was just getting a bit sloppy starting with the Blackwater job, then robbing Cornwall who probably has eyes and ears everywhere. Arthur and the gang weren't exactly subtle.


Micah was the rat since at least the Blackwater incident.

User Info: cloud_8f8f

cloud_8f8f
1 week ago#6
Shrimp_Man posted...
She was drunk and heartsick over Dutch. She knew the rules, she just wanted it over with imo. She knew Dutch would kill her if she said she was the rat, what she probably didn't expect was Arthur sticking up for her and for Miss Grimshaw to do the deed.

Micah was 100% the rat to the Pinkertons but Molly might have accidentally spilled the location of the camp to the O'Driscolls while drunk. It was never stated for sure how the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle.


The O'Driscolls found Shady Belle because they captured Kieran and tortured him until he gave the location. Then they killed him.
Playing: Kingdom Hearts III (PS4), Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (NS), Red Dead Redemption 2 (PS4)
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User Info: Zarley420

Zarley420
1 week ago#7
This whole post is mega spoiler so beware.

Micah was the rat since getting back from Guarma. He was working with the Pinks that whole time. Milton even tells Arthur that he leaned on Molly but she didn't give him anything. (Later Charles tells John that they picked up Strauss. He died in custody, never said a word.)

The train heist is a ruse to get Dutch nabbed. Remember when Dutch steps on Arthur's hand at the end? Micah is adamantly begging Dutch to go with him (so he can lead him to the Pinks) but Dutch ends up going his own way.

One can then assume Dutch hooks up with Micah later on but knows he's dirty and doesn't trust him, but he gets stuff done and is a good earner so they do their thing till John finds him. My feeling was Dutch planned for their partnership to end like that someday, perhaps after finding a replacement "son," John just made it come to pass. I even think Dutch knows John wouldn't shoot him in the back as he walks away.

User Info: Zarley420

Zarley420
1 week ago#8
Who is to say Joe and Cleet weren't undercover Pinks?

User Info: Shrimp_Man

Shrimp_Man
1 week ago#9
cloud_8f8f posted...
Shrimp_Man posted...
She was drunk and heartsick over Dutch. She knew the rules, she just wanted it over with imo. She knew Dutch would kill her if she said she was the rat, what she probably didn't expect was Arthur sticking up for her and for Miss Grimshaw to do the deed.

Micah was 100% the rat to the Pinkertons but Molly might have accidentally spilled the location of the camp to the O'Driscolls while drunk. It was never stated for sure how the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle.


The O'Driscolls found Shady Belle because they captured Kieran and tortured him until he gave the location. Then they killed him.


But Kieran never left the camp unless escorted by a gang member as was seen when fishing with Arthur. He was captured after the party when they got Jack back and had been missing for a few days when he returned. So my question is, how did the O'Driscolls know where Shady Belle was to kidnap him?
PSN: Shrimpie
Steam: darth_shrimpie

User Info: Zarley420

Zarley420
1 week ago#10
Shrimp_Man posted...
cloud_8f8f posted...
Shrimp_Man posted...
She was drunk and heartsick over Dutch. She knew the rules, she just wanted it over with imo. She knew Dutch would kill her if she said she was the rat, what she probably didn't expect was Arthur sticking up for her and for Miss Grimshaw to do the deed.

Micah was 100% the rat to the Pinkertons but Molly might have accidentally spilled the location of the camp to the O'Driscolls while drunk. It was never stated for sure how the O'Driscolls found Shady Belle.


The O'Driscolls found Shady Belle because they captured Kieran and tortured him until he gave the location. Then they killed him.


But Kieran never left the camp unless escorted by a gang member as was seen when fishing with Arthur. He was captured after the party when they got Jack back and had been missing for a few days when he returned. So my question is, how did the O'Driscolls know where Shady Belle was to kidnap him?


Maybe Bronte tipped off Colm? Are we positive Kieren was still confined to camp at that point? Did K stand up with everyone vs. Milton when they came to the ch. 3 camp? Maybe he proved himself and was jumped going to SD.
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