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  3. What if RDR2 is an allegory for Christianity and other religions?

User Info: DeadlyNinjaBees

DeadlyNinjaBees
1 month ago#1
The whole story is about the non-existence of, and societal over confidence in, the concept of faith. We have Dutch (a representation of a religious leader, with tones of a messiah complex) at the head of the group (herd), repeatedly requesting faith from his followers, spouting a "code" that his gang are to adhere to. The premise of the story revolves around Arthur's disillusionment in being expected to "simply have faith" in Dutch's notions and ongoing inability to formulate an ACTUAL plan (as opposed to his complete ability to react emotionally and react as such, utilising his mantra/code to guide his decision making).

Dutch's lack of mindfulness in planning forward has made his lifestyle choice and belief system incompatible with the incoming modernisation of the West. Much like modern Christianity now faces in Western civilisation, Dutch's "cult" are forced to face the cold, hard reality of their situation: They are losing their numbers and no longer have a guaranteed niche in society. Faith doesn't fix that.

(At this point I'd like to say that in construing this interpretation of the story, I in no way want insult/offend/argue for/against the notion of faith. Or even discuss it. I simply feel the trajectory of the story and the use of the concept of "faith" (often being used as a moral compass) parallels the current trend of religion in Westernised societies experiencing decreasing numbers, and less people utilising faith.)

I think, basically the moral of the RDR2 story pertains to Social Darwinism and the way in which we govern our thoughts changes as our homelands change the way they govern themselves. I want to sum it up better, but I have a bad case of poo brain today.
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User Info: KJBDEFENDER

KJBDEFENDER
1 month ago#2
You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a HUGE leap to compare Dutch's call to faith with Religious faith. I doubt that was R*'s intent.
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User Info: Yshnu

Yshnu
1 month ago#3
I get the allegory but I think much of life in those days revolved around faith. Faith alone can help people perform feats of great magnitude. It took faith and determination to travel to the New World. It took faith and determination to found settlements. It took faith and determination to travel westward.

A smart and canny charlatan knew how to exploit faith back in those days. Many a snake oil salesman pocketed prodigious coin by making the populace believe in their remedies. I think Dutch was more than a simple snake oil salesman, but he knew how to administer his wiles of charm to influence others. His charm was nothing more than a self-fulfilling prophecy that ultimately became unfulfilled as his vision became delusional. He demanded faith because it was the one thing that everyone understood. Faith was the glue that bound them together. It would also become the instrument of their destruction.

Faith is meaningless without love, honor and hope. Perhaps they had those things before the Blackwater debacle, but when we join the gang in the opening chapter, we are simply witnessing the beginning of the end. In each subsequent chapter, their faith rings ever more hollow until the last vestige of faith dissipates.

Given the above and the current state of religion in the world today, your allegory makes sense.

User Info: Yshnu

Yshnu
1 month ago#4
Oddly, when I went back and read what I wrote, it clearly defined the allegory that you suggested. That’s why I added the last line.

User Info: DeadlyNinjaBees

DeadlyNinjaBees
1 month ago#5
KJBDEFENDER posted...
You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a HUGE leap to compare Dutch's call to faith with Religious faith. I doubt that was R*'s intent.

I disagree. My experience growing up (as a Jehovah's Witness) and making the life changing decision to step away from faith/belief based thinking allowed me to draw poignant parallels between my formative years and Arthur's story.

The same frustrations arose. The same lack of forward thinking from leadership affecting the group became evident. The need to step away and take control back became evident.

It's has been oddly cathartic experience playing this game and relating it to my teenage crisis of conscience era.
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User Info: nanofazz97

nanofazz97
1 month ago#6
KJBDEFENDER posted...
You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a HUGE leap to compare Dutch's call to faith with Religious faith. I doubt that was R*'s intent.


I completely agree.

It was just a situation in which a gang trusted their leader too much.

I think TC's vastly overthinking it.

User Info: digUbetterdead

digUbetterdead
1 month ago#7
nanofazz97 posted...
KJBDEFENDER posted...
You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a HUGE leap to compare Dutch's call to faith with Religious faith. I doubt that was R*'s intent.

I completely agree.

It was just a situation in which a gang trusted their leader too much.

I think TC's vastly overthinking it.
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User Info: DeadlyNinjaBees

DeadlyNinjaBees
1 month ago#8
digUbetterdead posted...
nanofazz97 posted...
KJBDEFENDER posted...
You are comparing apples to oranges. It is a HUGE leap to compare Dutch's call to faith with Religious faith. I doubt that was R*'s intent.

I completely agree.

It was just a situation in which a gang trusted their leader too much.

I think TC's vastly overthinking it.

But what about the highly visceral tuberculosis sub-plot?
Surely it is there as a means of integrating the notion of mortality alongside the path of being faithful?
The change in moral direction taken by Arthur seems to play into this.
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User Info: Natural510

Natural510
1 month ago#9
They were a cult, with Dutch as the charismatic cult leader, much like “religious” leaders like David Korech and Jim Jones. So I can see the allegory in this story.

User Info: AzaneAzer

AzaneAzer
1 month ago#10
This makes more sense than I initially gave credit to it.
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