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User Info: WhitePointer

WhitePointer
5 months ago#31
Lost7th posted...
WhitePointer posted...
No it wasn't. Things called expansion packs existed long before DLC was a thing. All the concept of DLC is, is an expansion pack in downloadable form.


Yes but the core difference, and this is important, no one would even consider making the expansion pack till the original game was first successful. They did not sell the expansion pack pre order mystery box 7 months before the release of the actual game.


Would it surprise you to learn that the Brood War expansion pack for the original Starcraft was released only 9 months after the original game? They actually released in the same calendar year. Blizzard wouldn't have possibly known if Starcraft was going to be successful before starting work on it, assuming they did actually work on it after the original was complete and it didn't consist of cut content.

I'm not condoning stuff like loot boxes and that kind of thing, that practice isn't good - though consumers are happy to pay for that stuff so you need to wonder who's actually the stupid ones here - gamers or game makers.

Anyway, these "season passes" are not done by every company. They are becoming increasingly common yes, but they are not done by everyone. Some games still do have DLC in an expansion pack form once the original game is successful. To go back to one of my examples, you can't honestly say The Witcher 3 was an incomplete game on release. It was massive, chock full of content, and had 100+ hours of gameplay. You could not accuse CD Project Red of releasing an incomplete game. The two expansion packs, released as DLC, only expanded on the existing content and gave you even more Witcher.

With games moving more and more to digital distribution, it makes sense that the expansions packs become digital as well. I can give you plenty of other examples of games with good DLC that greatly expanded on the existing game, often adding in entirely new areas and enemies, and creating brand new story content including cinematics that increases the scope of the lore, such as The Last of Us, Horizon: Zero Dawn and Bloodborne. Strategy games such as the Dawn of War series have added in entirely new playable factions in addition to new campaign content. Fighting games such as Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Mortal Kombat 11 and Soul Calibur 6 are constantly adding new characters, despite being full and complete experiences at launch.

Not all DLC is bad, and to say there's "zero good instances of DLC" is ignorant at best.
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3XaGYiUNNsxllO6kAZsd_Q

User Info: UltraKev9

UltraKev9
5 months ago#32
Lost7th posted...
There are ZERO good instances of DLC. Every DLC has been some bulls*** LIE calling it a season pass that should have been in the game in the first place. Developers tell you it's just "Extending the life of the game" but that's bulls***. You know what extends the life of games? Making the game feel complete and good out the gate.

Did you start playing games yesterday?

This is wholly inaccurate and disingenuous. Back in the 90's the rare DLC would pop up for PC games and were always less expensive than the original game and added as much content as the original story. If you played the original game and were happy with the outcome and just went through arguably 20-50 hours of content then you didn't need to purchase the DLC packs. If you decided that after all that time you just couldn't get enough then the DLC would extend the story and life of that game for another 20 hours or more.

Also, in 90% of cases or better the DLC was a side story that had nothing to do with the main story, case in point, Wing Commander, Wing Commander 2. They weren't extensions of the main story and you weren't required to buy any "DLC" at all to enjoy the game. The packs were for people that wanted MORE ship destruction with a little story and greater challenge. They weren't for the faint of heart and they weren't really for people that had enough of WC/WC2 by the time they reached the end of the main story. Also, in the case of WC/WC2 one of the DLC packs simply added voice acting to the entire main story which at the time was quite rare for a floppy disk based game.

X-Wing Simulator had DLC in the form of the B-Wing Expansion.
TIE Fighter Simulator had DLC in the form of the "Secret Missions" and Missile Boat expansion which were some of the best damn portions of the game.

DLC and expansions have been around since long before you were born. Today's abuse is something new and the companies responsible will have the consumer to eventually answer to. 35 years ago game companies were much smaller and understood the backlash for poor practice. Today's companies are huge and think they are insulated but the internet's instant feedback generally self corrects them.
Evidently, I haven't set a signature for the message boards yet.

User Info: Kashell Triumph

Kashell Triumph
5 months ago#33
The list was well written, but a bit wordy. I like it when entries have more than one paragraph. Here, some of them could have been removed and the message would have been retained. It's easy to get carried away and write, write, write when you're passionate about something. So, maybe just keep this word in mind for the next list: edit.

As for the subject? Disagree. I can't stand DLC unless it's free. All of the games mentioned felt complete on their own. A full sequel would be better than DLC. Heck, Octopath Traveler is already an 80 hour game; what else could they hope to do with more content in a game that's already so massive?

Reading the above paragraph, it sounds like I'm being overly critical of the list. That's not my intention. I still up voted it because it's not a list from LS or you-know-who. Keep up the good work, Emi.
http://www.kashelltriumph.com

User Info: Okikurmi

Okikurmi
5 months ago#34
Have to severely disagree with octopath. I found that game to be such a let down.
I...am...Alexander. Tremble...before me... Worship...my greatness... I shall ascend to the heavens...

User Info: Emi3280

Emi3280
5 months ago#35
@MotherKojiro posted...
Are you serious right now? I can usually pick out "I'm not a native speaker" errors versus "I only speak English and I even suck at that" errors, and I never would've imagined that you're a non-native speaker. I had to learn a second language before things like colons and semicolons started making any kind of sense, so you're doing just fine.

Thanks a lot!! :)

Truthfully, I'm not sure how I'd justify the existence of DLC, because I don't think its existence is justified. Your use of language was fine; I just didn't feel that you effectively countered the arguments against your topic, though to be fair, it's not always easy to anticipate what those arguments might be.

It's hard to counter arguments when the topic at hand is something subjective. When something is objective, then one side of the argument is definitely wrong. In a subjective topic everything comes down to the way you feel about said topic, and perspective. That is why everything boils down to just agree to disagree with others. Like the Dave Mason song.

That wasn't quite what I'd meant; I was saying that the games do not need additional content, because they either already have enough or are simply not finished and should not have been released. Have new ideas to add on to the game? Make a sequel; that was the practice before DLC was a thing, and it was fine. If we're talking Skyrim, Bethesda has been taking the lazy way out and just rereleasing the thing on every system they can, instead of making a proper Elder Scrolls 6. Squenix is kinda doing that backwards with Octopath Traveler, rereleasing (and translating for the first time) the Romancing SaGa games, which were the clear inspiration for Octopath Traveler. This also ties into why I think nostalgia is stupid: so many people are eager for the things from their childhood, but they were neat because they were new experiences, and chasing that feeling by going back and doing those same things is going to produce the opposite effect.

I feel that WhitePointer said what I feel about this perfectly. Expansion packs are there if you want them. If you don't, you can simply ignore them. Back in High School when I played a lot of Call of Duty, I could easily not buy the map packs and still enjoy the heck out of the multiplayer.

I do have to admit that I bought all the map packs for the first Black Ops, though. Zombies mode in that game was godly. I still play it to this day. :)

I'm glad; there is a tendency within this community - and this board is not exempt from it - to just jump in, bash the thing (usually incoherently), and leave. Since I left something of a long-winded rant, as is my style, I just wanted to make it abundantly clear that I wasn't bashing your list; I saw a list, and wanted to give feedback. I can come off as abrasive at times, even though I don't swear at GameFAQs, though apparently, that's allowed now?

Yep, I've seen a list writer or two lose their s*** because their list was slightly criticized. I stay open to all criticism. If it's constructive criticism, I gladly accept it and even thank the other user for telling me their perspective, like I did with you. If it's destructive criticism (is that the way you guys call it in English?), I simply read it, comprehend the legit points, and just brush any offensive comment aside. :)
Switch FC: SW-2774-1787-6198 // PSN: MrLoneWanderer
"The two most important days in life are the day you are born and the day you find out why."

User Info: Emi3280

Emi3280
5 months ago#36
I completely agree with the points that WhitePointer and UltraKev9 mentioned in their posts. Since both posts are really long, I won't be quoting them, but I just wanted to let you guys know that you two defended the premise of the list way better than how the list creator did it, and I'm that list creator. Lol. I really have a lot to learn. :)

@Kashell_Triumph posted...
The list was well written, but a bit wordy. I like it when entries have more than one paragraph. Here, some of them could have been removed and the message would have been retained. It's easy to get carried away and write, write, write when you're passionate about something. So, maybe just keep this word in mind for the next list: edit.

As for the subject? Disagree. I can't stand DLC unless it's free. All of the games mentioned felt complete on their own. A full sequel would be better than DLC. Heck, Octopath Traveler is already an 80 hour game; what else could they hope to do with more content in a game that's already so massive?

Reading the above paragraph, it sounds like I'm being overly critical of the list. That's not my intention. I still up voted it because it's not a list from LS or you-know-who. Keep up the good work, Emi.

I tend to be a little wordy when I write. Would you believe me if I told you that in real life I'm extremely introvert and always try to keep conversations to a minimum?

I agree that full sequels are great, but they are also more costly. About Octopath, it is an 80-100 hour game on its own, but so are games like The Witcher 3 and Skyrim. Plus, there are instances in which people just don't like the sequels because of how the mechanic change. Take for instance, Fallout 4. I've been a part of the overall Fallout community since Tactics, and over half of the fanbase that has been around since a long time ago hated FO4. Most of them are still replaying the old CRPG games, or FO3 and FO:NV. Sequels are nice, but having more content in a game you already love is even better for some people. It's all about perspective. :)

Thanks for the feedback!!

@Okikurmi posted...
Have to severely disagree with octopath. I found that game to be such a let down.

What disappointed you from Octopath Traveler? I'd really like to know it.
Switch FC: SW-2774-1787-6198 // PSN: MrLoneWanderer
"The two most important days in life are the day you are born and the day you find out why."

User Info: Okikurmi

Okikurmi
5 months ago#37
I just found its whole structure to be a mess. Going around in circles feeling like you are not making any real progress and by the end it just dragged so i never bothered with the last few dungeons to get to the real final boss. The "story" was also a disaster. 4 reasonably ok to interesting characters and 4 that were just painfully boring, with none of them having any real interaction. The format of having 8 level 1,2,3,4 areas just did not work for me.

And i agree with Kashell_Triumph. A lot of RPG's, even the best ones can outstay there welcome. Adding on to a game thats already overly long can damage it just as much as help it.
I...am...Alexander. Tremble...before me... Worship...my greatness... I shall ascend to the heavens...
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