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  3. coronavirus topic #9: Delta Lamba Gamma Edition

User Info: Icewitch

Icewitch
2 months ago#461
ooshrooms posted...
It sounds like she could die from the flu. Do you demand mandatory flu vaccines for everyone? Did you before covid?

Honestly yeah everyone should, there's no reason not to when we require it for polio, mmr, etc. The only reason not to is wacko conspiracy s***.

she/her
^.^
ooshrooms posted...
It sounds like she could die from the flu. Do you demand mandatory flu vaccines for everyone? Did you before covid? I just looked up a study specifically for RA and covid. In a large study (34k patients 1500 covid positive) with median age of 68, mortality rate among infected patients was 5.6%. This was pre-vaccine when the general case mortality rate was around 2.3. Assuming she's under 45 and doesn't have heart disease or something, her risk is low. If she didn't freak out about other deadly diseases before, starting now is probably a result of public panic.

There is a risk of death in everything we do. We all die eventually. Good government ranks threats and forms policy to decrease the greatest risks at the lowest cost. Making covid-19 vaccines free and suggesting everyone to get jabbed and harping on personal responsibility to our neighbors is good policy. Mandates with punishments is not.

Get a different job. It's unfortunate that she has RA. That bad luck doesn't ethically allow infringements on others' rights.

There are other solutions. Refuse medical care for covid related illness for anyone who isn't vaccinated. They made a choice; let them reap the consequences. There's a big difference between the risk of death when you can get treated at a hospital and if you know you're on your own. It wouldn't be long before either they all get vaccinated or they contract it and then either die or have "natural" immunity. The vaccinated should go back to their normal lives right now.

Not the worst thing I've ever heard but that sounds harsher than some of these mandates honestly. Testing is still an option for the 100 employee+ places.

D E E G S posted...
The answer is when we perform an in-depth and data accurate societal risk-benefit analysis and lay it out there. So much of the reporting is and remains anecdotal or over emphasized isolated examples. What is the data driven inflection point for the US? We can't even answer definitively the effectiveness of natural immunity right now but we're going to try to mandate near universal vaccination? We trapped ourselves by starting this out at "One Death to COVID is too much." This is false, one death due to disease is not too much and never has been, when it means shutting down or severely inhibiting a functional society. I feel for immocompromised or those who can't get vaccinated for other reasons but the argument is the same for any other disease that has sprung up in existence.

Fauci on Natural Immunity:
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1436367477102071825?s=20

I mean is natural immunity really a good argument against trying to get more people vaccinated? Is there a reason not to get a vaccine anyways given we don't know how long natural immunity lasts after getting it?

Like if we knew natural immunity lasted as long as covid and if you could prove you had covid and they gave you a little paper that said you had immunity thats perfectly fine by me, but I dont think this is the case for most people refusing a vaccine.

Regarding whats a problem vs what isn't, cases are back way up again, hospitals are filling up (which was the criteria from the beginning). I don't think anybody wanted it to be this way.
well i see icewitch has officially gone off the deep end

seriously, i had to double check to make sure it wasn’t zio posting
give me a reason not to smash your face in

User Info: D E E G S

D E E G S
2 months ago#464
SunburnCostanza posted...
Like if we knew natural immunity lasted as long as covid and if you could prove you had covid and they gave you a little paper that said you had immunity thats perfectly fine by me, but I dont think this is the case for most people refusing a vaccine.

Regarding whats a problem vs what isn't, cases are back way up again, hospitals are filling up (which was the criteria from the beginning). I don't think anybody wanted it to be this way.

If you have confirmed positive COVID test we should be able to tell how many people have caught COVID repeatedly by now to some extent. How common that is and what the risk factor is for catching a severe case the second time if you do after almost 18 months. If you tested positive it should be pretty easy to prove from a health record stand point once we've deduced that risk factor. 40 million people have caught COVID in the US and while there is likely some measure of overlap between them and those who have been vaccinated it seems like a missed opportunity to completely disregard this when formulating health policy.

Regardless, my issue here is mainly within the context of what is basically a universal private sector vaccine mandate (assuming it is even constitutional) and the aforementioned risk-benefit analysis that we need on our mitigation strategies. We hear generally about hospitals filling up but we don't get the big picture data on this. Is this universal to the healthcare system or is it isolated? South Western Missouri was this massive hotspot for about 3 weeks and now it isn't again. The data paints a picture that we're not even half as bad as we were in Nov-Dec last year pre-vaccine which would align with the fact that over half the country is fully vaccinated and 63% has at least one dose so is this more of a last hurrah for COVID than an imminent collapse?

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map
The only people that can say what matters to gaming are those that buy and play them.-Ollie Barder, Forbes Contributor

User Info: Icewitch

Icewitch
2 months ago#465
RawketLawnchair posted...
well i see icewitch has officially gone off the deep end

seriously, i had to double check to make sure it wasn’t zio posting

Nah its time to stop coddling anti-vaxxers. I'm with Biden on this one. We can't keep treating people who are willfully endangering people with kid gloves. f*** their freedoms.
she/her
^.^

User Info: -ZIO-

-ZIO-
2 months ago#466
Lock them up and throw away the key.

User Info: ooshrooms

ooshrooms
2 months ago#467
Icewitch posted...
Honestly yeah everyone should
Everyone who isn't contraindacated should, but you miss my point. We don't force them, and [I presume] you haven't previously been calling for it. If you weren't calling for a mandate before, the logical explanation for you demanding covid vaccinations now is that you've bought into the panic. It's not based on an objective threat analysis that's consistent with your other policy views and how you live your life in regards to other threats.

Every time you leave your house, you risk the chance of a stranger killing you with their car or giving you TB or something. We outlaw drunk driving and make people take driving tests and take licenses away from old people who are extremely dangerous etc., but there are still a ton of bad drivers out there. We accept that for them being functioning members of society. This is the same thing. There are risks to letting people choose not to get vaccinated, but the risks for the vaccinated population aren't statistically so big that it makes sense to force people to get vaccinated by threats of penalty. Because a loved one has an elevated risk, you have an emotional response, but policy should be based on facts and statistics and not emotions.
let me inform you of my superior social skills while chatting on this online message board about video games - Mewchu3

User Info: Recycled

Recycled
2 months ago#468
Mandating is also a step towards creating resistance.

Our population has been quite receptive towards the vaccine, but when they "tried" to force the tracing app -- when our prime minister even so much as just suggested it being mandatory -- there was a huge backlash.

User Info: Icewitch

Icewitch
2 months ago#469
ooshrooms posted...
We don't force them

We force plenty of vaccines, actually. One more on the list is nbd.
she/her
^.^

User Info: Enix Belmont

Enix Belmont
2 months ago#470
I'm pro-vax, anti-mandate to the hardest degree. To me, this sets the worst precedent i've seen since the patriot act. I really think a lot of the rhetoric you're seeing justifying this mandate will be seen like all the pro-patriot act people back after 9-11. Even if you believe it's for the best, the backlash is already doing harm IMO. You lost a lot of red people permanently with that speech. It was threatening and blamed the people people lied to instead of the liars. 26 states are against it. In the most divided times of our country in my life time, Biden just turned people on eachother more than anything since trump got elected.

I genuinely believe in the statement "My body my choice" and I'm shocked to see so many people who said they strongly support that statement to support the mandates. I am pro-choice, but only because I believe the right to bodily autonomy trumps any right the state has to prevent you from doing what you want from your body.(well, that and the safety implications, since women get them anyway, but even if it was 100% safe, I would still be pro-choice due to the principle of bodily autonomy). Obviously, many others who are pro-choice have different reasons for it than me, which makes sense, but I'm surprised to see how many people had a different interpretation of the saying than me, I guess. Feels like I'm in the minority of pro-choice people when I never got that impression before.

Also, on a similar wavelength, I'm against the death penalty for the extremely rare case we execute an innocent man by accident. Better to let guilty people live than kill a single innocent. This vaccine has killed people - statistically, very very very insignificant, and it's a smart choice to get the vaccine for 99.9999% of people, probably, sure, but even 1 person who dies from myocarditas who was against getting it that we forced to....Yeah, not OK with making that choice for that 1 person. I don't think we should accept any casualties for the greater good when it comes to coercion.

I dunno. The kindness approach seemed to be working. I had multiple friends get the jab in the past month who previously were against it, and it was out of fear of the delta, not peer pressure or fear of losing their jobs. However, my perspective is admittedly skewed on this front because I like in MA, which is like the most vaxxed state(or up there), and I dunno what it's like down south or whatever in deep red country, the red people around here are pretty blue too. Still, according to Biden's own words, vaccinations were way up last month. This seems like objectively the wrong time even if you support the mandate.
'Come fight beside me,' I said to myself, and although it doesn't make sense, I held my own hand as a small sign of trust, and together I made my defense.
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