• Topic Archived
You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Sign Up for free (or Log In if you already have an account) to be able to post messages, change how messages are displayed, and view media in posts.
  1. Boards
  2. Dragon Ball - General
  3. So is Manga kale stronger then golden frieza
SpiralSwords 2 months ago#251
deepsquid posted...
It's 1 image of the canon fight.

My point is there's no need to view the movie and the recap as if they were in separate universes.

It's a recap. The point of a recap is to give you a summarized explanation of what happened. Not to establish that the events were entirely different.

But if the movie used that image as a poster, then it shows how serious Toei takes their movie.

It also proves that it's not meant to view both the Manga recap and the movie as being in separate universes. It literally makes no sense.

At what stage in the movie did SS Broly fought SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta on ice and both of them unharmed?

"That's not what happened. Only in the canon, in Toriyama's script there was never lava. Exactly what this poster shows."

"The one who stood still and took the punch and made the extremely powerful enemy broke their arm."

Goku's body responded to Moro's attack in that moment. Goku isn't walking around in a body of steel constantly.

"Or the other that used max power against a Blue tier fighter and did nothing special to be honest, he was strong, but that's kinda it."

UI is based on moving without thinking and striking with terrifying power.

Fusion is based on creating a being dimensions greater than the sum of their parts.

Neither has a ceiling...as they both (UI with accuracy as they become more powerful, Fusion creates an even more powerful warrior when the fusees themselves improve) have a way of elevating the users to unimaginable levels.

You talk about Fusion as if it's a run-in-a-mill power-up. It's certainly not.

"To me, UI feels more busted than any fusion has shown in the manga. It's possibly even as busted as Z Vegito. That's the last time Fusion was shown that powerful canonically."

It's funny how you'll call Z Vegito "busted" when all he really did was dominate Boo. Yeah, being able to fight as a gumball was busted, but everything else was mostly pure power.

"There is a bonus chapter that showcase completely harmed Goku and Vegeta doing the Fusion dance. That shows that Broly did once again, 0 damage on his enemies in Toriyama's canon action scene."

The recap clearly says Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta were outmatched to the point where they had no chance but to flee. This is why it's silly to go by a few images that

"Let's be honest, you can remove Broly movie out of the story and nothing changes. Same for Frieza's movie. Frieza got resurrect and got killed immidiately in the same movie."

Yes, but both are apart of the story, so that's what it is.

"In both of those movie nothing happened to the main characters. Neither of them unlocked a new power or something like that in BoG."

Goku acquired Super Saiyan God in BoG.

Goku and Vegeta didn't have Super Saiyan Blue when RoF began. They acquired it at some point during the movie. So they actually did unlock a new power in the movie.

Gogeta Blue was a brand new Fusion power as well since he never existed outside of movie 12. Both were brand new.

"But regardless of that, the Broly movie got a little bit more panels than Frieza's movie in the manga."

But both were recaps of what was told in the movie.

"SSB Goku's single kick broke Fused Zamasu's arm."

Zamasu still blocked it. And his arm was back to normal like a page later anyway.

When did Zamasu block any of Vegito's attacks?

"SSB Vegito's attacks has no affect on Zamasu."

Zamasu was regenerating the entire time.

"Based on how strong Vegito is compared to SSB Goku according to Fusion fans, Fused Zamasu should be full of holes and broken body. Instead all he has is a bleeding nose because of Vegito."

It's the Majin Boo effect. He kept regenerating. Look at all the times Boo was getting his ass kicked.

Perfected Blue Goku=Zamasu

Vegito Blue>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Super Vegito>>>>>>>>Vegito>Perfected Blue Goku=Zamasu

Yes, Vegito is that powerful. Goku was putting up a good fight, but ultimately they were equals. No different than Goku/Majin Vegeta.

Vegito Blue was pure domination.

"I ain't INTERESTED in a buncha scrubs like you!!"-Cloud Strife
FlyingWindGod 2 months ago#252
Brolypotence posted...
because for Zamasu's case (in the manga), Vegito used SSB because he thought he could overcome the immortality with stupidly overwhelming power. It failed.

Broly was just that strong and that's why Gogeta needed SSB to deal with him

Vegeta got that plot device secret training, you should know by now that DBS works that way

If he was able to blast Zamasu's torso in half to a crisp in Base and before recovering, then he already had the overwhelming power needed. He could've just gone Super Saiyan to achieve a similar effect without being entirely wasteful with his stamina.

The multipliers do not seem to carry with Fusions like they do normally. Otherwise, there would be no need to ever make a jump higher than regular Super Saiyan.

If the idea that UI cannot be as strong as Fusion stems from the idea that Fusion offers such a colossal boost in power, consider that both Broly and even Vegeta were able to push Fusion level in a single bound.
SpiralSwords 2 months ago#253
deepsquid posted...
Just a scenario, where Fusion meets an evil immortal Nappa with powerlevel of 7k or something.

Would Vegito go SSB? You know he wouldn't because that's ridiculous.

Your scenario makes no sense because they'd never merge against that level to begin with.

Zamasu was capable of overwhelming Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta together. Nappa wouldn't be able to overwhelm a Base Saiyan suppressed to like 1% of their power in this instance.

Except when Vegito is using SSB for a Goku tier opponent, you and MUIGogito try to make excuse that it's because of immortality and quickly wrapping it up.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/3/2/AAcju5AAClx4.jpg

Vegito's thinking was sensible because he didn't have all the time in the world to take care of the problem. We go on to see that the extreme use of power was what canceled the Fusion out altogether.

Beerus wouldn't have been able to finish Zamasu off with a Hakai, and he's beyond UI Goku.

Merus is an Angel, and even he was sweating for those "fodders".

You do realize Moro was stealing everyone's energy while the battle with the fodders was taking place, right?

Alone, those fodders got thrown around like they were nothing.

Those fodders are clearly not that much of a fodders as you claim, else Goku wouldn't go 2x SSB with Vegeta.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/3/3/AAcju5AAClx5.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/3/4/AAcju5AAClx6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oWAca01.jpg

They were constantly having their energy sapped and the fodders still couldn't bring them down.

God level where?

"Nor would Merus had to save them... apparently SS3 isn't enough to take on Saganboo."

Merus had to save them because Moro was draining their energy. It's not that the convicts were too strong. It's the fact that Goku and Vegeta were constantly losing power while the convicts stayed fresh.
"I ain't INTERESTED in a buncha scrubs like you!!"-Cloud Strife
Brolypotence 2 months ago#254
FlyingWindGod posted...
If he was able to blast Zamasu's torso in half to a crisp in Base and before recovering, then he already had the overwhelming power needed. He could've just gone Super Saiyan to achieve a similar effect without being entirely wasteful with his stamina.

The multipliers do not seem to carry with Fusions like they do normally. Otherwise, there would be no need to ever make a jump higher than regular Super Saiyan.

If the idea that UI cannot be as strong as Fusion stems from the idea that Fusion offers such a colossal boost in power, consider that both Broly and even Vegeta were able to push Fusion level in a single bound.
Broly was that strong

Vegeta got an off-screen training boost, you should know DBS by now

also Vegito went Blue because he again wanted to extremely overpower Zamasu so he didn't regen

the kind of power is like punch = obliteration

but Vegito can't punch and have the same effect as existence erasure which Beerus has and wouldn't work on Zamasu anyway

the rest is Toyo's problem
UE feels more and more like the transformation was something Toyo cooked up in 5 min to not make Vegeta feel behind in the transformation arms race with Goku.
WhatChuLookinFo 2 months ago#255
MUIGogito posted...
Thanks man. Also I wanna get yours and Spirals take on this.

So we know that UI Goku was destroying Moro 73 in their fight. However there was only one time where UI Goku decided to straight up tank a punch from Moro 73, the rest was Goku dodging and parrying his attacks.

For the one punch that UI Goku decided to tank, his UI had made his body “sturdier”. We know that this had specifically only happened when Goku decided to tank Moro 73’s punch, because there was a sound effect of Goku’s body hardening as the punch was about to land:
https://i.imgur.com/T4vNIVt.jpg

and then another sound effect after the punch had landed, indicating that his body has softened back to normal:
https://i.imgur.com/iHufXQs.jpg

Whis explains this as his body growing sturdier “as necessary
https://i.imgur.com/YpHVVa8.jpg

So apparently Goku’s body grew sturdier as “necessary” for the one and only time UI Goku decided to tank Moro 73’s punch?

Now I’m not suggesting that Moro’s punch would have damaged UI Goku in any meaningful way had Goku not hardened his body; I think he would have been mostly fine anyways seeing how big of a stomp that fight was.

But if Moro 73’s punch would have done zero damage to UI Goku, I don’t think it would have been “necessary” for Goku’s body to have hardened in the first place.

So do you think this could imply that UI Goku was a lot stronger than Moro 73, but was still not in a position to take absolutely zero damage from him without his body hardening?

The reason I’m bringing this up is that SSBE Vegeta can somewhat damage Planet Moro, as shown by his ability to use FSF on him. Do you think the above could possibly back this up? I know that UI Goku was a lot stronger than Moro 73, but so would UI Moro and Planet Moro be in comparison to SSBE Vegeta.

Sorry for the delayed response, took a break to chill with family and friends for the past few days. To answer your question, yes. As Whis himself said and as shown by humanoid Angel Moro and UI Goku themselves their bodies' defenses enhance itself without any of their input automatically.

Apparently if deem necessary of course, it's true UI Goku was stomping the s*** out of Moro-73, but there has been plenty of times in the DB series when there was a considerable gap between two opponents the inferior one was able to damage the superior one, albeit the damage was considered minor/small/superficial.

Here, UI Goku's body deemed it "necessary" to enhance its durability to nosell Moro-73's for that one attack. If it wasn't necessary UI Goku's body would have remained as is meaning Moro-73's attack would have dealt some damage.

This makes sense to me as you mentioned earlier Vegeta was able to damage Angel Moro's enhanced durable body despite the gap in power between them would be considered huge at the time.
http://imgur.com/a/U4ne8
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIPnug8JKwYq4S4M/giphy.gif
ssgvegeto 2 months ago#256
Brolypotence posted...
Broly was that strong

Vegeta got an off-screen training boost, you should know DBS by now

also Vegito went Blue because he again wanted to extremely overpower Zamasu so he didn't regen

the kind of power is like punch = obliteration

but Vegito can't punch and have the same effect as existence erasure which Beerus has and wouldn't work on Zamasu anyway

the rest is Toyo's problem
Where are you getting the colored versions of these?
https://imgur.com/gtjHMvJ
SpiralSwords 2 months ago#257
Mui and Whatchu

So when debating about ToP Goku>Gohan, someone said it would make more sense for Piccolo and Gohan to be thinking about Pseudo Kaio-Ken Blue Goku>Gohan instead of Perfected Blue>Gohan.

What say you?

Based on everything said about the power-up (tearing apart Goku's body for a single burst), I seriously doubt they'd have that in mind when making a comparison.

"I ain't INTERESTED in a buncha scrubs like you!!"-Cloud Strife
MUIGogito 2 months ago#258
SpiralSwords posted...
Mui and Whatchu

So when debating about ToP Goku>Gohan, someone said it would make more sense for Piccolo and Gohan to be thinking about Pseudo Kaio-Ken Blue Goku>Gohan instead of Perfected Blue>Gohan.

What say you?

Based on everything said about the power-up (tearing apart Goku's body for a single burst), I seriously doubt they'd have that in mind when making a comparison.
I mean, technically, it is possible. But the likelihood of them referring to Not-Kaioken Blue Goku is slim to none.

Goku only threw three punches in that state, and Whis had said in front of Gohan and Piccolo that he was mistaken in using this as this was not what he needed. It makes no sense for Gohan and Piccolo to have in mind a form that they know that Goku abandoned because he could only use it for a very, very short period of time, which also completely wrecked his body.

Out of universe it was obviously a one off thing which was implemented as a nod to SSB Kaioken from the anime. But more importantly, I think that even Piccolo and Gohan would know that it was a one off thing, meaning that they wouldn’t factor it in to any future statements.
WhatChuLookinFo 2 months ago#259
MUIGogito posted...
I mean, technically, it is possible. But the likelihood of them referring to Not-Kaioken Blue Goku is slim to none.

Goku only threw three punches in that state, and Whis had said in front of Gohan and Piccolo that he was mistaken in using this as this was not what he needed. It makes no sense for Gohan and Piccolo to have in mind a form that they know that Goku abandoned because he could only use it for a very, very short period of time, which also completely wrecked his body.

Out of universe it was obviously a one off thing which was implemented as a nod to SSB Kaioken from the anime. But more importantly, I think that even Piccolo and Gohan would know that it was a one off thing, meaning that they wouldn’t factor it in to any future statements.

Agree with this mostly, but the part in bold could still hold true. Goku's characterization in DBS is regressive/circular to say the least. Remember when Roshi chastised Goku for relying purely on sheer power like Freeza and Vegeta? Well, he literally does that again against Prime Moro were he forcibly combines what looks like Blue with Omen which visibly seems to stress his body similar to Not Blue Kaioken (which V-Jump straight up said was Blue Kaioken).

This didn't seem to surprise Gohan/Piccolo when he did it so it's a possibility they could have factored Not Blue Kaioken in which case it would mean it's possible for ToP Gohan = (or near-equal) PSSJB Goku < Not Blue Kaioken Goku < SSJBE Vegeta.

Again, it's one of those things that could be possible, but the series simply doesn't dwell on it long enough for us to say one way or another.
http://imgur.com/a/U4ne8
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIPnug8JKwYq4S4M/giphy.gif
SpiralSwords 2 months ago#260
I understand where both of you are coming from.

Personally, the narrative alone is enough for me to just go with Perfected Blue Goku>Gohan. People are too focused on the "But it's Krillin" part while ignoring that no one attempted to correct him. When Krillin wondered if Goku was hiding a more powerful transformation to take on Jiren, Whis immediately told him that Goku was using his most powerful form.

With all of the people observing the battle, someone would've corrected him (Piccolo especially) about Gohan if it was that obvious. The simplest answer to this is that there was nothing to correct here.
"I ain't INTERESTED in a buncha scrubs like you!!"-Cloud Strife
  1. Boards
  2. Dragon Ball - General
  3. So is Manga kale stronger then golden frieza
  • Topic Archived